 |
The Avengers International Fan Forum
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
MasterMind
Thingumajig
Joined: 17 Sep 2017
Posts: 63
|
 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:57 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Argh. The story about Dame Diana seems to be behind a paywall.
_________________
"What I lack in agility I make up for with a certain low cunning" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cyberrich
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1070
Location: Midlands, U.K.
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Did anyone watch A Christmas carol goes wrong? Diana was the narrator, though she was heard more than seen. What did you all think  I was a bit disappointed after the brilliance of Peter Pan goes wrong last year. This type of thing, which is more or less sending up the perils of amateur dramatics, only works when it is itself performed on stage in front of a live audience, which Peter Pan was last year. Subsequently, the narrator of that one, David Suchet, had a much more involved role. This year's pre-recorded offering was on a film set rather than a stage, and was far too slick and contrived. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darren
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1791
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, it sadly didn't work as well as Peter Pan Goes Wrong.
It was pretty much supposed to be an as-live production but it was an awkward conceit to pull off. It still had some laugh out loud moments as they're very good with the physical comedy.
Diana running down Derek Jacobi did amuse though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cyberrich
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1070
Location: Midlands, U.K.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I did find the running gag with the young actor who didn't know his lines, and reading them from various part of the set, quite amusing. This should really have been on a stage though. They are a very inventive team though, so hopefully they'll do more stuff in the future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
norw27
Little Wonder
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 153
Location: Norwich
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
QuiteQuiteFantastic
Thingumajig
Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
I saw this yesterday. It's a very charming interview with Dame Diana. She's very funny in it. I think she might be mis-remembering the ice rink driving sequence in On Her Majesty's Secret Service however. They were still in the rear-screen projection period in 1969, and she was probably just on a set with a mocked-up car. And I seriously doubt they would have allowed her to do the stunt driving shots filmed from outside the car.
Michael
_________________
Quite Quite Fantastic! The Avengers for Modern Viewers. It's the latest book on both The Avengers and The New Avengers. Available in softcover as of 1st May 2018 on Lulu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MasterMind
Thingumajig
Joined: 17 Sep 2017
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: |
I saw this yesterday. It's a very charming interview with Dame Diana. She's very funny in it. I think she might be mis-remembering the ice rink driving sequence in On Her Majesty's Secret Service however. They were still in the rear-screen projection period in 1969, and she was probably just on a set with a mocked-up car. And I seriously doubt they would have allowed her to do the stunt driving shots filmed from outside the car.
Michael |
Yes, but why would she misremember having done that kind of driving? I mean, it's a race with a bunch of other cars on an ice rink. That's not exactly your average spin down to the store or to the beach.
If you look closely at the clip, it's also pretty clear that the interior shots of her driving seem not to have been filmed against a screen, and according to documentation in the Ultimate Edition DVD, Rigg and Lazenby did do most of their own driving during filming.
I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there....
_________________
"What I lack in agility I make up for with a certain low cunning" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
QuiteQuiteFantastic
Thingumajig
Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MasterMind wrote: | | I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there.... |
And, if I had done that, you would be absolutely correct. As a matter of record, I didn't. Let's not look for offense where there is none.
Michael
_________________
Quite Quite Fantastic! The Avengers for Modern Viewers. It's the latest book on both The Avengers and The New Avengers. Available in softcover as of 1st May 2018 on Lulu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MasterMind
Thingumajig
Joined: 17 Sep 2017
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there.... |
And, if I had done that, you would be absolutely correct. As a matter of record, I didn't. Let's not look for offense where there is none.
Michael |
Um, you said--and I quote--that she was "misremembering," that she was "probably on a set with a mocked-up car," which is not what Diana Rigg said actually happened. I fail to see how it's not disrespectful to insinuate that she was making stuff up when she said quite plainly that she herself drove the car, and when you can actually see in the actual film that she's actually driving the car.
Women can drive, too, you know. Often quite well. And we even remember having done it, surprisingly enough.
_________________
"What I lack in agility I make up for with a certain low cunning" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
QuiteQuiteFantastic
Thingumajig
Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
|
| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MasterMind wrote: | | QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there.... |
And, if I had done that, you would be absolutely correct. As a matter of record, I didn't. Let's not look for offense where there is none.
Michael |
Um, you said--and I quote--that she was "misremembering," that she was "probably on a set with a mocked-up car," which is not what Diana Rigg said actually happened. I fail to see how it's not disrespectful to insinuate that she was making stuff up when she said quite plainly that she herself drove the car, and when you can actually see in the actual film that she's actually driving the car.
Women can drive, too, you know. Often quite well. And we even remember having done it, surprisingly enough. |
Clearly, you're deliberately being adversarial and making up perceived insults against Diana Rigg that are simply not happening. "Mis-remembering" does not mean lying or making up stuff. I'm not insinuating anything. You are simply putting words in my mouth. And there is no sexism in my statements either. You are inferring something that is simply not there. I'm in my fifth decade and already early memories are starting to drop out the back of my head despite having had a near eidetic memory all my life. The events of On Her Majesty's Secret Service happened almost 50 years ago, and people's memories often conflate various events as they get older. In fact, the very nature of human memory makes this impossible to avoid. Each time you recall a memory, it is like taking out a file, copying it onto a new file and putting that new file back in the place of the original one, allowing for modification of the memory in the process.
I could be wrong and this might have been the exception to the usual rules, but almost no one did their own stunts, male or female, even in the 1960s. Macnee and Rigg rarely did stunts even in The Avengers. Steadicam car-mounted cameras did not exist in the 1960s, and filming was generally not done on top of cars because the camera would be noticeably bumped around. Thus, the standard practice was to use a mock car set in studio and rear screen film projections in the background. As for the wide shots of the car being driven around on the ice rink, there would have been no point in Diana Rigg driving the car and unnecessarily risking herself when she is not seen inside the car. A stunt driver would have done this. The liability was simply too great to allow non-professional drivers to risk themselves, especially since an injury would mean that filming would cease. If they did in fact allows Dame Diana to do all her driving stunts in that scene then they were taking a very big risk.
Another possibility is that a stunt driver was really driving the car while the actor was flailing away at a dummy wheel in the other seat. That technique was used for the film Ronin, though that is a much later film.
For the record, it is not at all obvious in the clips in that video that she is driving a real car. The blur of images seen through the rear view window could easily have been accomplished on a studio set with rear screen projection just as I have said. Admittedly, however, I have not seen the complete film in donkey's years, so there may be additional shots that would change my mind.
Michael
_________________
Quite Quite Fantastic! The Avengers for Modern Viewers. It's the latest book on both The Avengers and The New Avengers. Available in softcover as of 1st May 2018 on Lulu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
QuiteQuiteFantastic
Thingumajig
Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
|
| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MasterMind wrote: | | QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there.... |
And, if I had done that, you would be absolutely correct. As a matter of record, I didn't. Let's not look for offense where there is none.
Michael |
Um, you said--and I quote--that she was "misremembering," that she was "probably on a set with a mocked-up car," which is not what Diana Rigg said actually happened. I fail to see how it's not disrespectful to insinuate that she was making stuff up when she said quite plainly that she herself drove the car, and when you can actually see in the actual film that she's actually driving the car.
Women can drive, too, you know. Often quite well. And we even remember having done it, surprisingly enough. |
Clearly, you're deliberately being adversarial and making up perceived insults against Diana Rigg that are simply not happening. "Mis-remembering" does not mean lying or making up stuff. I'm not insinuating anything. You are simply putting words in my mouth. And there is no sexism in my statements either. You are inferring something that is simply not there. I'm in my fifth decade and already early memories are starting to drop out the back of my head despite having had a near eidetic memory all my life. The events of On Her Majesty's Secret Service happened almost 50 years ago, and people's memories often conflate various events as they get older. In fact, the very nature of human memory makes this impossible to avoid. Each time you recall a memory, it is like taking out a file, copying it onto a new file and putting that new file back in the place of the original one, allowing for inadvertent modification of the memory in the process.
I could be wrong and this might have been the exception to the usual rules, but almost no one did their own stunts, male or female, even in the 1960s. Macnee and Rigg rarely did stunts even in The Avengers. Steadicam car-mounted cameras did not exist in the 1960s, and filming was generally not done on top of cars because the camera would be noticeably bumped around. Thus, the standard practice was to use a mock car set in studio and rear screen film projections in the background. As for the wide shots of the car being driven around on the ice rink, there would have been no point in Diana Rigg driving the car and unnecessarily risking herself when she is not seen inside the car. A stunt driver would have done this. The liability was simply too great to allow non-professional drivers to risk themselves, especially since an injury would mean that filming would cease. If they did in fact allows Dame Diana to do all her driving stunts in that scene then they were taking a very big risk.
Another possibility is that a stunt driver was really driving the car while the actor was flailing away at a dummy wheel in the other seat. That technique was used for the film Ronin, though that is a much later film.
For the record, it is not at all obvious in the clips in that video that she is driving a real car. The blur of images seen through the rear view window could easily have been accomplished on a studio set with rear screen projection just as I have said. Admittedly, however, I have not seen the complete film in donkey's years, so there may be additional shots that would change my mind.
Michael
_________________
Quite Quite Fantastic! The Avengers for Modern Viewers. It's the latest book on both The Avengers and The New Avengers. Available in softcover as of 1st May 2018 on Lulu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MasterMind
Thingumajig
Joined: 17 Sep 2017
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there.... |
And, if I had done that, you would be absolutely correct. As a matter of record, I didn't. Let's not look for offense where there is none.
Michael |
Um, you said--and I quote--that she was "misremembering," that she was "probably on a set with a mocked-up car," which is not what Diana Rigg said actually happened. I fail to see how it's not disrespectful to insinuate that she was making stuff up when she said quite plainly that she herself drove the car, and when you can actually see in the actual film that she's actually driving the car.
Women can drive, too, you know. Often quite well. And we even remember having done it, surprisingly enough. |
Clearly, you're deliberately being adversarial and making up perceived insults against Diana Rigg that are simply not happening. "Mis-remembering" does not mean lying or making up stuff. I'm not insinuating anything. You are simply putting words in my mouth. |
I'm not putting anything into your mouth that you yourself did not say. You were pretty explicit in your dismissal of Dame Diana's claim to have driven that car, and although I understand you didn't intend an insult, I do find that dismissal to be both disrespectful to Dame Diana and sexist nevertheless.
If Dame Diana's word about what she actually did isn't enough for you, there is documentation elsewhere that she drove the car herself. She also freely admits that a double did the skiing for her, so why would she be untruthful about having driven the car?
And please don't play the age card. It's beyond condescending, especially given that I'm not exactly a whippersnapper myself.
_________________
"What I lack in agility I make up for with a certain low cunning" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
QuiteQuiteFantastic
Thingumajig
Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
|
| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MasterMind wrote: | | QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there.... |
And, if I had done that, you would be absolutely correct. As a matter of record, I didn't. Let's not look for offense where there is none.
Michael |
Um, you said--and I quote--that she was "misremembering," that she was "probably on a set with a mocked-up car," which is not what Diana Rigg said actually happened. I fail to see how it's not disrespectful to insinuate that she was making stuff up when she said quite plainly that she herself drove the car, and when you can actually see in the actual film that she's actually driving the car.
Women can drive, too, you know. Often quite well. And we even remember having done it, surprisingly enough. |
Clearly, you're deliberately being adversarial and making up perceived insults against Diana Rigg that are simply not happening. "Mis-remembering" does not mean lying or making up stuff. I'm not insinuating anything. You are simply putting words in my mouth. |
I'm not putting anything into your mouth that you yourself did not say. You were pretty explicit in your dismissal of Dame Diana's claim to have driven that car, and although I understand you didn't intend an insult, I do find that dismissal to be both disrespectful to Dame Diana and sexist nevertheless.
If Dame Diana's word about what she actually did isn't enough for you, there is documentation elsewhere that she drove the car herself. She also freely admits that a double did the skiing for her, so why would she be untruthful about having driven the car?
And please don't play the age card. It's beyond condescending, especially given that I'm not exactly a whippersnapper myself. |
You have an extraordinary ability to take everything out of context in order to justify being offended. I will not argue with you any further. Please continue to enjoy the ego juice you're getting from being offended on Ms. Rigg's behalf without any further assistance from me.
Michael
_________________
Quite Quite Fantastic! The Avengers for Modern Viewers. It's the latest book on both The Avengers and The New Avengers. Available in softcover as of 1st May 2018 on Lulu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ian Wegg
Have Fingers... Will Type!
Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 298
|
| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The contemporary featurette "Shot On Ice" answers all the questions about how the sequence was shot: Shot On Ice |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MasterMind
Thingumajig
Joined: 17 Sep 2017
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ian Wegg wrote: | | The contemporary featurette "Shot On Ice" answers all the questions about how the sequence was shot: Shot On Ice |
Thank you for this, Ian.
At 2:12 the narrator states: ""The ice chase sequence called for some hair-raising driving by this talented actress."
This is accompanied by behind-the-scenes footage of Diana Rigg actually being in the actual car, which she actually drove, on location, and not in a studio.
I do think that puts paid to any controversy, yes?
_________________
"What I lack in agility I make up for with a certain low cunning" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dissolute
The Ministry
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ian Wegg wrote: | | The contemporary featurette "Shot On Ice" answers all the questions about how the sequence was shot: Shot On Ice |
That's so cool. It's obvious that the shots coming into the town and going towards the stock car race are a mixture of stunt drivers in long shots and back projection for the incar shots - and possibly some with Diana driving, but a director wouldn't risk his star on an open road! The stock car sequence has some shots repeated and edited together, it's great to see the behind the scenes in the featurette. Must now go and put the bluray on...
_________________
Mrs Peel, you're needed!
http://www.dissolute.com.au/the-avengers-tv-series/
Every episode from 1961 to 1977 plus more trivia than you can shake a brolly at. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MasterMind
Thingumajig
Joined: 17 Sep 2017
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I went back and looked at the car chase scene in more detail, and there definitely is a mix of studio shots and ones that were done on the ice, and this is how you can tell.
In shots that were done in a studio, there is no reflection of the exterior lights from the track on the windshield, because what we see of the track is an image projected on a screen behind the car, and the shot length is longer because the camera can be set in front of the car, rather than right on the hood:
In shots that were done on the track itself, the exterior lights *do* reflect off the windshield, and the shot length is shorter because the camera was mounted directly on the hood of the car:
And while it's true that Steadicams were not invented until the 1970s, directors found other ways to get the shots they wanted before that. For the ice track scenes with Dame Diana driving, they mounted a camera and lights directly onto the hood of the Mercury Cougar:
So yeah, while some of the in-car shots *were* done in a studio, others were not, and Dame Diana was remembering quite correctly when she said she actually drove the car when they filmed the ice track sequence. Because she did.
_________________
"What I lack in agility I make up for with a certain low cunning" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ian Wegg
Have Fingers... Will Type!
Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 298
|
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The book The Essential James Bond (Lee Pfeiffer & Dave Worrall) says that the sequence took over a week to film and used four Mercury Cougars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
denis rigg
The Big Thinker
Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 1293
Location: Moscow, Russia
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mousemeat
A Touch of Brimstone
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 4231
Location: Elvis Central, U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MasterMind wrote: | | QuiteQuiteFantastic wrote: | | MasterMind wrote: | | I dunno. I think it's kinda disrespectful to suggest that she was being disingenuous or even untruthful about something like that, especially since she was, you know, actually there.... |
And, if I had done that, you would be absolutely correct. As a matter of record, I didn't. Let's not look for offense where there is none.
Michael |
Um, you said--and I quote--that she was "misremembering," that she was "probably on a set with a mocked-up car," which is not what Diana Rigg said actually happened. I fail to see how it's not disrespectful to insinuate that she was making stuff up when she said quite plainly that she herself drove the car, and when you can actually see in the actual film that she's actually driving the car.
Women can drive, too, you know. Often quite well. And we even remember having done it, surprisingly enough. |
Yup, my wife drives....sheesh....all too well.....arghhhh LOL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
