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Remaking the Avengers?
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The New Avengers[/i] wouldn't be The New Avengers without Gareth I'm afraid. Fact more than opinion.


Sure, as a fact The New Avengers did have Gareth.

I stand by my opinion in theorizing about a remake, the focus of this thread. I would be happy with any type of Avengers/New Avengers remake if Gambit wasn't included. As far as I know that is not a sin of G-d, and I hope it's not a sin of this Forum, either!

We've disagreed about Gambit on other threads, so let's leave it at that, Dandy. There are categories in The Avengers whereby folks are split on liking or disliking certain Avenger topics: Tara and Tara episodes, Venus, Dr. King, black and white episodes, color episodes, etc., and... Gambit is included in that as well. Wink

Probably nearly everything about The Avengers has some people loving or disliking it; it's that broad a show with very different people as fans. For all of those who love Gambit there are numerous others who simply don't, and would not miss him in a remake--but, of course, I love Steed and Purdey was my all-time favorite Avengers woman. They were terrific in their scenes together. I'd love a remake with just those two.

Mona
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually meant to say Gambit, not Gareth. I'm not suggesting that it couldn't be brought back because Gareth is no longer with us.

Like The Avengers is not The Avengers without a John Steed so The New Avengers is not The New Avengers without Steed, Mike Gambit and Purdey (unlike the 60s show TNA didn't change it's line-up).

Just Steed and Purdey together wouldn't work for me at all I'm afraid. Gambit and Purdey would, but it wouldn't be The New Avengers, just a true spin-off show.
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
I actually meant to say Gambit, not Gareth. I'm not suggesting that it couldn't be brought back because Gareth is no longer with us.

Like The Avengers is not The Avengers without a John Steed so The New Avengers is not The New Avengers without Steed, Mike Gambit and Purdey (unlike the 60s show TNA didn't change it's line-up).

Just Steed and Purdey together wouldn't work for me at all I'm afraid. Gambit and Purdey would, but it wouldn't be The New Avengers, just a true spin-off show.


I'd actually argue that while you couldn't have The Avengers without Steed, you couldn't have TNA without Gambit. I think the focus had shifted somewhat and he'd become more of the linchpin--it's his dynamic with both Steed and Purdey that makes things gel, IMO. Steed and Purdey just never had any spark for me--their scenes always dragged.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was because there was a prescribed dynamic between Steed and Keel, Steed and Cathy, Steed and Emma and Steed and Tara.

In The New Avengers it was all about the triumvirate. I can happily accept a Steed/Gambit or a Gambit/Purdey, but not a Steed/Purdey. In my opinion there's something missing from that.

It's how I feel about The Champions, Department S and most threesomes too.
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, I'd love a Steed/Purdey without Gambit around! I found Gambit to be an entirely unwanted addition to the Steed/Partner Avengers theme, which had been so successful for nine years in several different incarnations. In no way do I see Gambit as a linchpin--I see him as the proverbial third wheel.

I still think Steed with one partner is the best way to have the show. And Steed was paired very well with Purdey, especially in his slimmed down, super handsome, active second season.

But, anyway, it's probable we won't be seeing a TNA remake. Set in the 1970s, it wouldn't work nowadays, I think. I didn't know Purdey's clothing was so awful, until reading the recent opinions of those on the Forum; I was always so amazed at how well Purdey could run in those high heels! I can't even WALK in high heels. Joanna must have had outstanding balance. Wink

So, regarding any TNA remake, with it not happening, we can use our own imaginations as we wish to adapt the canon to each of our likings. Timeless has done that with her Gambit focused stories; and I've done that with my Steed based ones. That our mindsets are, at times, stratospherically apart is not uncommon among fans.

Thus let us all hope that G&T's Avenger remakes brings us all together in appreciation of his series!

Mona
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oneknightsteed
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mona wrote:
And, I'd love a Steed/Purdey without Gambit around! I found Gambit to be an entirely unwanted addition to the Steed/Partner Avengers theme, which had been so successful for nine years in several different incarnations. In no way do I see Gambit as a linchpin--I see him as the proverbial third wheel.

I still think Steed with one partner is the best way to have the show. And Steed was paired very well with Purdey, especially in his slimmed down, super handsome, active second season.


Mona

I'm with you all the way, Mona. Pat was the true "lynchpin" throughout the original and new series'. Pat's Steed was the character that set the tone. If he wasn't necessary, why bring him back? Because Brian, et al knew he would be the main draw for fans. Gambit was only there for muscle, which in my opinion was a bad call. Steed and Purdey were strong characters who, if allowed to work as a pair, would have been dynamic. Gambit just seemed a muddy distraction.

Viva la difference! Wink Very Happy
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Viva la difference!


Indeed, life would be boring if we all thought the same.

Mona, your love of Patrick Macnee and John Steed is well known on these boards and that's great. You don't like Ian Hendry and you don't like Gareth Hunt and that's fine too.

My appreciation of the show is possibly wider than your own. Yes, I have favourites but I enjoy every season and every Avenger so I feel lucky.

I've never though much about a New Avengers remake, less about when it would be set, but a 70's setting would work as proven by the success of Life on Mars.

God, I bet you'd HATE Gene Hunt! Laughing
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bobbysteed
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: From Bobby Steed Reply with quote

Do you think Pierce Brosnon could play Steed? How about Hugh Grant? Just food for thought. Bobby Very Happy
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

My appreciation of the show is possibly wider than your own. Yes, I have favourites but I enjoy every season and every Avenger so I feel lucky.

I've never though much about a New Avengers remake, less about when it would be set, but a 70's setting would work as proven by the success of Life on Mars.

God, I bet you'd HATE Gene Hunt! Laughing



I think you are right, Dandy.

I admit my love of the Avengers rotates around Macnee/Steed (as it does for many female fans I know). But, I love all the series, because Steed is in them. I truly love TNA, and think there are super excellent episodes in the series, even though I have to put up with Gambit being there. And, yes, I thought Ian Hendry was lifeless (but come on, compared to Macnee's Steed, he WAS), which does narrow me, as you state, if narrowing means I don't like all the characters in the Avengers long canon. I don't! Just ask me about Lady Diana Forbes-Blakeney--Seek. Hate. Kill her! Wink

Luckily, Macnee's Steed is an amazingly comprehensive, fascinating and evolving character, was at the center of everything Avengers, and that easily kept my interest in all the different series! Wink

I have never heard of Gene Hunt--I looked him up on Wikipedia and his character on your Life on Mars seems to be very unpleasant by that website's description. Unfortunately the American take-off of Life on Mars was cancelled. I had watched one episode and it seemed pretty decent.

Mona
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: From Bobby Steed Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you think Pierce Brosnon could play Steed? How about Hugh Grant? Just food for thought. Bobby Very Happy


Hey, Bobby,

I think Pierce might have a chance--I very much enjoyed his Bond--but not Grant, in any way, shape or form.

Mona
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: From Bobby Steed Reply with quote

bobbysteed wrote:
Do you think Pierce Brosnon could play Steed? How about Hugh Grant? Just food for thought. Bobby Very Happy


I wouldn't like to see anyone famous from other shows playing Steed simply because it would be like '(insert famous name) playing Steed' you never got that with Patrick as he wasn't widely known.

As for Hugh Grant. I'd like to bury the ba$tardo. Sorry, but he's a disgrace. Twisted Evil

To be completely honest with you ... I don't want anyone to play Steed. No-one could ever bring the sheer gift of a performance like Patrick Macnee. I love the guy (in a very heterosexual manly way of course ... )
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oneknightsteed
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: From Bobby Steed Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:

I wouldn't like to see anyone famous from other shows playing Steed simply because it would be like '(insert famous name) playing Steed' you never got that with Patrick as he wasn't widely known.


To be completely honest with you ... I don't want anyone to play Steed. No-one could ever bring the sheer gift of a performance like Patrick Macnee. I love the guy (in a very heterosexual manly way of course ... )


I agree with you 1,000,000%, Dandy! Pat was Steed and, therefore, Steed could be played by no one but Pat. I never saw the movie for that very reason and was spared an apparently painful ordeal.

(A man crush is totally normal, Dandy. You're just fine. Wink )
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
Quote:
Viva la difference!


Indeed, life would be boring if we all thought the same.

Mona, your love of Patrick Macnee and John Steed is well known on these boards and that's great. You don't like Ian Hendry and you don't like Gareth Hunt and that's fine too.

My appreciation of the show is possibly wider than your own. Yes, I have favourites but I enjoy every season and every Avenger so I feel lucky.

I've never though much about a New Avengers remake, less about when it would be set, but a 70's setting would work as proven by the success of Life on Mars.

God, I bet you'd HATE Gene Hunt! Laughing


The longer I'm an Avengers fan, the more I love the various iterations and characters. I'm even coming around to the Gale era on this most recent rewatch, and that era used to bore the socks off me. There's so much to love if you don't limit yourself at the outset, and that includes the non-TV stuff, too. The radio series is absolute genius. But if others don't, that's their call. But I love the lot of 'em--Gambit just gets a bit more of it than the rest. Wink

(I still wonder about the Gareth Hunt/Gene Hunt connection to this day, y'know...)

I don't know if I'd ever want TNA redone without the original actors. Steed and Emma at least have been redone successfully in the radio series without Patrick and Diana, so I hold out hope for TV. TNA had those thicker cardboard characters that were as much Gareth and Joanna as they were creations of Brian Clemens. If they ever brought them back, I'd like it as a novel or a radio series. The TV moment passed when that nineties movie never made it. Not that I'd mind another seventies period piece! Cool

And as for Pierce, I'm convinced he nicked a little of Steed's character for Remington Steele...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mona wrote:
Quote:

My appreciation of the show is possibly wider than your own. Yes, I have favourites but I enjoy every season and every Avenger so I feel lucky.

I've never though much about a New Avengers remake, less about when it would be set, but a 70's setting would work as proven by the success of Life on Mars.

God, I bet you'd HATE Gene Hunt! Laughing



I think you are right, Dandy.

I admit my love of the Avengers rotates around Macnee/Steed (as it does for many female fans I know). But, I love all the series, because Steed is in them. I truly love TNA, and think there are super excellent episodes in the series, even though I have to put up with Gambit being there. And, yes, I thought Ian Hendry was lifeless (but come on, compared to Macnee's Steed, he WAS), which does narrow me, as you state, if narrowing means I don't like all the characters in the Avengers long canon. I don't! Just ask me about Lady Diana Forbes-Blakeney--Seek. Hate. Kill her! Wink

Luckily, Macnee's Steed is an amazingly comprehensive, fascinating and evolving character, was at the center of everything Avengers, and that easily kept my interest in all the different series! Wink

I have never heard of Gene Hunt--I looked him up on Wikipedia and his character on your Life on Mars seems to be very unpleasant by that website's description. Unfortunately the American take-off of Life on Mars was cancelled. I had watched one episode and it seemed pretty decent.

Mona


It's a weird coincidence that you should mention Lady Diana Forbes-Blakeney, I've just been reading Legacy Unbound on the excellent Avengers Artland website and thought this story - which features Tara, Lady Diana and Purdey as trainee agents - would form an interesting basis for an Avengers spin-off show (or maybe not if you don't like Lady Diana!)

http://artland.theavengers.tv/page51.html

The only problem is, I don't think its 1960s setting fits with the original show's timeline - at least not for Purdey who, I think, was still training for ballet at that time?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would prefer, if the show had to be brought back at all, that it was set in today's Avengerland. Thirty years after Steed, Gambit and Purdey.

Essentially this would make it - in Star Trek terms - 'Avengers The Next Generation'. Cringe you may, but there would be no avoiding it.

However this would mean no Steed, no Gambit and no Purdey (all three long retired). I would simply cast actors who are Steed-like and Peel-like. No connection with the last lot, no offspring or 'John Steed Jr.'
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
I would prefer, if the show had to be brought back at all, that it was set in today's Avengerland. Thirty years after Steed, Gambit and Purdey.

Essentially this would make it - in Star Trek terms - 'Avengers The Next Generation'. Cringe you may, but there would be no avoiding it.

However this would mean no Steed, no Gambit and no Purdey (all three long retired). I would simply cast actors who are Steed-like and Peel-like. No connection with the last lot, no offspring or 'John Steed Jr.'


That's essentially what I would do.
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Ginandtonic
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am wondering if this might happen actually... Confused

Let's say for arguments sake, the tribute we're now shooting, attracts and encourages the interest we are after, and Canal with another studio green light a pilot, but want changes... this could be a possible outcome, I know what TV bosses are like... and boy do they love to change things, but the question is would it work?...

Okay let's say they stick with the title and leave that alone, to change it would be a bad idea, it was hard enough thinking of a way to alter the title for our tribute (on legal grounds mind you).

Thing is dispite the nods you could have to the past setting it in a present day avengerland, and references to previous avengers, villains etc...who would these new avengers be, and in what context... obviously the thing to avoid would be some lame 80's genre man/woman buddy cop/private investigator sort of schtick, no offense to the shows that worked but there were alot of rip off ideas, essentially most ripping off the Avengers originally.

Thing is, if the man is not Steed, and the woman isn't Gale/Peel/King/Purdey, then what, who are they...

First one to avoid is any relations to the above, so that leaves new characters all together, but to create a character to be Steed like is not as easy as it sounds, a like for like clone would be appalling.

A 'Steed' character - The building blocks would be, Suave, Cool, a great tactician, but rarely uses guns at all, and utterly British, cheekiness would be a must, a throwback to bygone era possibly, a darker edge possibly also for a modern audience, what may be a nice touch to ensure it's inclusion in the mix would be that the 'ministry' (for arguments sake we'll call it the ministry) the steel bowler hat and swordstick umbrella have become standard issue, but partly as in joke, no one uses them, apart from our hero (we'll get round to names in a moment).

A 'Gale/Peel/King/Purdey' character - Well this is equally difficult... Gale and Peel we're the pioneers for female adrenaline junkies, thriving off adventure, and danger, whilst retaining their cool at all times, the character model here still exists in present day, given that the character padding has altered over the last 50 years of film and TV, but another example of how the show was way ahead of it's time and breath of fresh air... so how to get that back with a 'woman' avenger, as well as new series, how can a revival series become a new breath of fresh air.

Another thing to avoid would be making something that ended up being a tongue in cheek version of spooks, with originality fast becoming a thing of the past, would it be best to leave the show alone?

Anyway back to how to create an independent revival... so names, naming what you hope will become household names, believe me you can lose a day of writing working on this haha

So a good strong British name for the male avenger... hmmm James springs to mind, but echos of Bond so a no, John... nope... Thomas, Thomas Carter and now for a female avenger mmmm let's see... Hannah Fox suddenly hit me (slight nod to the stage show) might change Hannah's surname no, no we'll leave it for now...

Hmmm right... I love all of of you on here, you get my mind thinking hehe... okay serious question now, and a very serious question indeed...

With the film shoot for the Avengers Return imminent, (the shooting schedule is being typed as we speak), I'm going to put this to the test, here is an opportunity for you, the fans to be part of the tribute... okay here goes...

Would you like to see a tribute that features Steed and Mrs Peel, or a tribute that features new characters in true Avengers style... or would you like to see both? Now the ground work is in place for a Steed/Peel tribute, we could easily put together a Carter/Fox teaser for comparison, and we could see if it is indeed possible to create 'The Avengers' without Steed and Gale/Peel/King/Purdey.

What does everyone think? Will give it a week for everyone to mull over, as there is still time before we shoot.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify that, if the show was brought back, it could be to the original show what Star Trek: The Next Generation was to it's predecesor. So it wouldn't be The Avengers as such but 'Avengers Today', 'Avengers 2011' or, as I prefer - with a nod to Dave Rogers and Timeless A-Peel -'Avengers Anew'.

This way you wouldn't need a John Steed, for without whom there is no Avengers.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ginandtonic, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm a bit concerned that you're coming up to shooting time without having settled these questions already. I'm not sure what prompted you to make the attempt at a revival, but you must have had some idea of what kind of show you wanted it to be. What was your own vision? What was it about the Avengers that makes it different for you from all its rivals, and which you'd like to retain for your remake? Is it the period, is it the style, is it the wit, is it the characters? Because whatever it is, it's something you'd have to have in your head very strongly going into the shooting if the show is to have conviction. So it's a bit worrisome that you're still casting around for a template at this late stage.

My own view is that all or any of those characteristics of the show that I listed are dispensable. The only thing that is really indispensable is the script, the basic story-telling. If you can come up with something half as good as Too Many Christmas Trees, or The House that Jack Built, or A Surfeit of H2O, you will have a winner. People will forgive all deficiencies if you just have strongly plotted stories.

Most importantly, they must be mysteries. It looks to me that Brian Clemens forgot that towards the end of the Peel era, at a time when he was distracted by the prospect of getting a big American audience and started tweaking the show to suit them. No doubt he began to absorb all the idiotic ideas the American TV execs have about the intelligence of their own audience. Don't follow their example and start dumbing-down. Don't reveal the villains in the first ten minutes (as in "Epic") and turn the rest of it into a cops-and-robbers shoot-out. Mystery means mystery, and mystery must mystify. That's the essence of The Avengers. A third of The Hour that Never Was passes before we get even the remotest clue what is going on at an apparently deserted airfield. You must be prepared to do that and have faith that your audience has not switched over.

Which means you need top-quality scripts. I haven't read all your posts, so I may be behind on this one, but I don't know who you've got on board to fill that gap. But you need them more than you need either of those actors, or the director or the producer. You need a Steven Moffat or a Mark Gatiss, who have been crucial to the success of the revived Doctor Who, writers who can scare the s*** out of the viewers (think of the weeping angels in Blink). If you can just get someone like that, you're halfway there. Amidst all the talk of style and character, bowler hats and sports cars, it would be very easy to leave the most important element of the Avengers behind, which was its creepiness, its ability to frighten and disturb. Ingredients of style and wit are all very well, but it was the solid story-telling of people like Roger Marshall that made the show take off in the first place.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Ketman,

Everything is in place for the revival we had envisioned, i.e. with Steed and Peel, there is no issue there and all is well; what has been raised here is a hypothetical situation that could arise after the tribute has been finished... the idea we're toying with at this point is during the shoot, to quickly shoot a test teaser with different characters, under a slightly different structure, not unlike a scene test you might get on a DVD for a movie, where an idea was tested but never included in the final edit if that makes sense.

Please don't misconstrue here, we've merely asked a question whether a test with new characters would be of interest to compare against the initial tribute once finished, if it is then we will oblige with a 1 minute teaser scene.

But in all seriousness, all is fine with preparations for the shoot, and the script we have is strong, but it's always good to be prepared for all eventualities, at the end of the day the tribute is also a part of a portfolio being taken to Canal+ and they may want to see alternatives.


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