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The Avengers "Universe"
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paulpdjh
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: The Avengers "Universe" Reply with quote

Not sure if this is in the right section as it's not really about a spin-off, but listening to the radio I heard the presenter mention that "this film is set in the same universe as The Avengers". Sadly, he was talking about Captain America and the forthcoming Marvel Avengers film, but it started me thinking about what might exist in the Steed Avengers universe. I don't mean cinema films or television programmes with an Avengers feel, but ones which either make a reference to events in The Avengers or vice versa.

An obvious one is Goldfinger (Mrs Gale working undercover with James Bond), which is alluded to in both Lobster Quadrille and Too Many Christmas Trees.

There might also be a reference to events in The Maltese Falcon in Legacy of Death. However, I've never actually watched the Maltese Falcon, so I'm not too sure.

Any other suggestions?
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Cybernowt
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question.

With Dr Who, the 'official' comic strip had the 7th Dr meet Death's Head. Death's Head originally came from the Transformers 'universe'. Then he went on to appear with the Fantastic Four and other Marvel characters which puts the Doctor in the same universe as both Transformers and Marvel comics characters in one sense.

There was to be a cross over strip between the 7th Dr and Dr Strange but only one preview panel was ever produced.

The Avengers comic strip didnt really have chance to cross dimensions. But thinking about similar styled shows, you'd think that Adam Adamant would be in the same vein as Avengers.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite sure what you mean. Gambit and Purdey discuss The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and John Houston in The Midas Touch. That sort of thing?

There's no actual continuity between The Avengers and other films and TV that I can think of. The mention of Goldfinger is a wink to a wise audience rather than anything of a confirmation of Cathy's fate after. Honor was very established as Pussy Galore; aviator and employee of Goldfinger in that film.

There is a reference to a 'Department S' but again more of an in-joke to a contemporary show than a possible connection.
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paulpdjh
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
Not quite sure what you mean. Gambit and Purdey discuss The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and John Houston in The Midas Touch. That sort of thing?

There's no actual continuity between The Avengers and other films and TV that I can think of. The mention of Goldfinger is a wink to a wise audience rather than anything of a confirmation of Cathy's fate after. Honor was very established as Pussy Galore; aviator and employee of Goldfinger in that film.

There is a reference to a 'Department S' but again more of an in-joke to a contemporary show than a possible connection.


I was thinking more of references to events in The Avengers and/or other films, etc, rather than direct references to films themselves as in The Midas Touch. For example, another on that has just sprung to mind is an episode of the TV series Spy Game when Patrick Macnee's character mentions Little Storping (from Murdersville).

I agree that any links are tenuous and more of an in-joke rather than a serious attempt at linking The Avengers with other shows/films, but it's fun trying to spot them!
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I don't know - there are a lot of oblique references to Bond, they are clearly in the same universe. Wasn't Cathy was considered second-most dangerous behind "JB"?
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
There is a reference to a 'Department S' but again more of an in-joke to a contemporary show than a possible connection.


Where's the Department S reference? I haven't watched the Tara era since I watched S, so I probably missed it.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timeless, it's Noon Doomsday. Steed is recuperating at Department S with a broken leg.

I wonder if Annabelle Hurst was stirring his tea anti-clockwise? Wink
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
Timeless, it's Noon Doomsday. Steed is recuperating at Department S with a broken leg.

I wonder if Annabelle Hurst was stirring his tea anti-clockwise? Wink


She was clearly a Tara clone, so you'd hope so. Laughing
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, but, but... Noon Doomsday was produced before Department S was ever broadcast!

It was broadcast two weeks after the first-ever episode of Department S was, do you think they'd bother with an in-joke for a show that wasn't even known to the public at the time of filming?
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dissolute wrote:
But, but, but... Noon Doomsday was produced before Department S was ever broadcast!

It was broadcast two weeks after the first-ever episode of Department S was, do you think they'd bother with an in-joke for a show that wasn't even known to the public at the time of filming?


Well, both series were shooting at Elstree at the same time (along with Randall and Hopkirk), so the two shows definitely would have been aware of each other pre-broadcast. If they knew the episode was going to run shortly after the Department S premiere, that would have made it the perfect in-joke to slip in, right when the series was in the press a lot for its premiere, and people would be likely to notice it. Or maybe it was just a bit of writer's whimsy on Terry Nation's part. Maybe he was writing scripts for both at the same time, and did it for his own amusement. Or maybe he just needed a name for the department and nicked it. There are loads of explanations.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Timeless. Plus there would be no way of knowing when either Noon Doomsday or Department S would be broadcast at the writing stage - or whenever that line was included.

An in-joke doesn't have to be for the viewer, it could be for the crew or anyone 'in the know' be it a reference to Fort Knox, Department S, 'JB', a file with the name 'Cathy Gale', 'Emma Peel' on it, or even a store called 'Purdey's' (from the movie). An in-joke might be for one's own amusement.

Are these called 'Easter eggs' these days? I was reading a comic book website where it stated a certain comic artist would always include a drawing of Popeye somewhere in a panel of every comic he drew as a kind of 'signature'. This was referred to as an 'Easter egg'.

In any case the two series were quite close in some respects - Linda Thorson and Rosemary Nichols even shared the same wardrobe on occasion.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: The Avengers "Universe" Reply with quote

paulpdjh wrote:
Not sure if this is in the right section as it's not really about a spin-off, but listening to the radio I heard the presenter mention that "this film is set in the same universe as The Avengers". Sadly, he was talking about Captain America and the forthcoming Marvel Avengers film, but it started me thinking about what might exist in the Steed Avengers universe. I don't mean cinema films or television programmes with an Avengers feel, but ones which either make a reference to events in The Avengers or vice versa.

An obvious one is Goldfinger (Mrs Gale working undercover with James Bond), which is alluded to in both Lobster Quadrille and Too Many Christmas Trees.

There might also be a reference to events in The Maltese Falcon in Legacy of Death. However, I've never actually watched the Maltese Falcon, so I'm not too sure.

Any other suggestions?


good point....makes much sense...
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
Agree with Timeless. Plus there would be no way of knowing when either Noon Doomsday or Department S would be broadcast at the writing stage - or whenever that line was included.

An in-joke doesn't have to be for the viewer, it could be for the crew or anyone 'in the know' be it a reference to Fort Knox, Department S, 'JB', a file with the name 'Cathy Gale', 'Emma Peel' on it, or even a store called 'Purdey's' (from the movie). An in-joke might be for one's own amusement.

Are these called 'Easter eggs' these days? I was reading a comic book website where it stated a certain comic artist would always include a drawing of Popeye somewhere in a panel of every comic he drew as a kind of 'signature'. This was referred to as an 'Easter egg'.

In any case the two series were quite close in some respects - Linda Thorson and Rosemary Nichols even shared the same wardrobe on occasion.


Not just wardrobe, but hair extensions! I know I've spotted particular ones Linda used on Rosemary Nichols on more than one occasion. But then, Annabelle was pretty obviously a Tara clone, so I suppose it made sense to share. Recycling was rife at Elstree--they reused Alexandra Bastedo's costumes from The Champions two years later by giving them to Annette Andre for Randall and Hopkirk. Two women with more different body types I can't imagine, but they made it work somehow. Laughing

Back to the Department S link, Dandy's right when he says the in-joke didn't even have to be for the benefit of the audience--writers throw in things for their own amusement all the time. Regardless of the reasoning behind it, I doubt it was a coincidence, even if it was just thrown in to save the time it would take to think up a name for another department.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still like to hunt down the reference to 'Mrs Peel' in an episode of The Saint!
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
dissolute wrote:
But, but, but... Noon Doomsday was produced before Department S was ever broadcast!

It was broadcast two weeks after the first-ever episode of Department S was, do you think they'd bother with an in-joke for a show that wasn't even known to the public at the time of filming?


Well, both series were shooting at Elstree at the same time (along with Randall and Hopkirk), so the two shows definitely would have been aware of each other pre-broadcast. If they knew the episode was going to run shortly after the Department S premiere, that would have made it the perfect in-joke to slip in, right when the series was in the press a lot for its premiere, and people would be likely to notice it. Or maybe it was just a bit of writer's whimsy on Terry Nation's part. Maybe he was writing scripts for both at the same time, and did it for his own amusement. Or maybe he just needed a name for the department and nicked it. There are loads of explanations.


Noon Doomsday was a total Brian Clemens rewrite as we found out a fairly recently - Clemens totally rewrote it after Nation delivered a script with little of what they discussed featured - this then encouraged Nation be more thorough in his writing to prevent any further rewriting. So it was more probably a Clemens line who would have been well aware of Department S not just through it being made at the same studio but his best friend Dennis Spooner created and script edited it.
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
I'd still like to hunt down the reference to 'Mrs Peel' in an episode of The Saint!


I actually found it ages ago. I bought 2 A&E Saint sets from the bargain bin, and of the roughly dozen episodes in there, that was one of them. I haven't watched anymore Saint since then, but I really lucked out on that front. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
Noon Doomsday was a total Brian Clemens rewrite as we found out a fairly recently - Clemens totally rewrote it after Nation delivered a script with little of what they discussed featured - this then encouraged Nation be more thorough in his writing to prevent any further rewriting. So it was more probably a Clemens line who would have been well aware of Department S not just through it being made at the same studio but his best friend Dennis Spooner created and script edited it.
In the 60s and 70s Nation, Clemens and Spooner all shared offices close to each other in various studios at Elstree/Borehamwood anyway and kept commissioning each other for scripts for whichever series they were script supervising on. They were constantly chatting about what they were doing now and next.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some Avengers 'connections' here...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054518/movieconnections
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paulpdjh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting the link, Dandy. That's interesting.

I remember watching an episode of the 1990s TV comedy, The Hello Girls, which featured The Avengers. The programme was set in a telephone exchange in the early 1960s. At the end of one episode the two supervisors were shown watching a Cathy Gale Avengers episode on TV.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulpdjh wrote:
Thanks for posting the link, Dandy. That's interesting.

I remember watching an episode of the 1990s TV comedy, The Hello Girls, which featured The Avengers. The programme was set in a telephone exchange in the early 1960s. At the end of one episode the two supervisors were shown watching a Cathy Gale Avengers episode on TV.


I remember that too now you mention it. I'm sure when one of the characters tuned in we saw a glimpse of a Cathy Gale episode, but ... with Laurie Johnson's music. Oops.
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