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why bother
Thingumajig
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 65
Location: Sussex
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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The Jean Shrimpon thing was i think called "we'll Take Manhatten", about her and David Baily, which was broadcast several months ago on BBC 3. I don't know of another one being made.
| Timeless A-Peel wrote: | | Dandy Forsdyke wrote: | They certainly went to a lot of trouble using the classic Avengers font and Jean ('The Shrimp') Shrimpton photographs in Emma Peel Avengerwear.
Jean Shrimpton was a model on par with Twiggy at the time. There is currently Jean Shrimpton biopic in production starring Karen Gillan. |
It's a gorgeous display, I agree--I think they pushed the fashion line more than we realise. I've heard Joanna talk about Jean Shrimpton, so to have both her and Twiggy modelling Avengers clothes was quite a coup. I think I've seen shots of Karen Gillan in character, as well--she has bangs now, and they've been dressing her up in lots of lovely sixties clothes.  |
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Dandy Forsdyke
Diabolical Mastermind
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 5281
Location: Camberwick Green
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| why bother wrote: | | The Jean Shrimpon thing was i think called "we'll Take Manhatten", about her and David Baily, which was broadcast several months ago on BBC 3. I don't know of another one being made. |
Oh, has it already been on? I'm out of touch obviously...
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why bother
Thingumajig
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 65
Location: Sussex
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Dandy Forsdyke wrote: | | why bother wrote: | | The Jean Shrimpon thing was i think called "we'll Take Manhatten", about her and David Baily, which was broadcast several months ago on BBC 3. I don't know of another one being made. |
Oh, has it already been on? I'm out of touch obviously... |
Yes the DVD of its been availible for a month or two now as well. |
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Timeless A-Peel
A Touch of Brimstone
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 4866
Location: New Scotland, Canada
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Dandy Forsdyke
Diabolical Mastermind
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 5281
Location: Camberwick Green
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Typical 60's pose from Joanna Lumley.
Source. |
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Sinus1994
Winged Avenger
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 604
Location: Hidden under Mrs Peel's bed
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
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This picture reminds me this one:
Diana Rigg and boxer Billy Walker.
That's a photo from the "The Avengers Fashion" photo shooting for season 5 in 1967.
The dress looks similar, doesn't it? 
At least just a bit...
Sincerely yours,
Sinus1994  |
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why bother
Thingumajig
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 65
Location: Sussex
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I spotted these, but my german is almost non existent so I couldn't quite work out what was being offered for sale (either in the ebay aution in the ad for that matter) |
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Sinus1994
Winged Avenger
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 604
Location: Hidden under Mrs Peel's bed
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| why bother wrote: |
I spotted these, but my german is almost non existent so I couldn't quite work out what was being offered for sale (either in the ebay aution in the ad for that matter) |
No problem.
I'll undertake that for you.
The first photo is a commercial for blouses and skirts.
They are made out of this "Trevira Polyfan" from the firm "Povel".
For that Diana is used in her role of Mrs Peel as exclusive model.
The second photo is another version of he same commercial.
The same ad for blouses, skirts, trousers, overcoats, suits and pantsuits from a so called "Mrs. Emma Peel collection".
Sincerely yours,
Sinus1994 |
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Timeless A-Peel
A Touch of Brimstone
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 4866
Location: New Scotland, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Those dresses are strikingly similar, but I guess since they're from roughly the same time in the sixties, it shouldn't be surprising. (Joanna's modelling years coincided, more or less, with the Emma era. She switched over to acting after her son was born in 1967). With Joanna's reddish dye-job, she actually kind of looks like Diana, if you squint.
Thanks for the German translations, Sinus. There are a lot of photos of Diana from German magazines (usually Bravo) floating around, but I'd never seen these particular ads before. Clearly it was a German-only endorsement. I wonder if they cleared the correct legal channels to be able to say that "Mrs. Peel" was modelling their clothes?
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why bother
Thingumajig
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 65
Location: Sussex
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Thanks for the translation. I wonder if this was an actual Avengers branded range, as there was in the UK, or if Diana was just being used to advertise an normal clothing, as it were. |
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Timeless A-Peel
A Touch of Brimstone
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 4866
Location: New Scotland, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| why bother wrote: | Hi
Thanks for the translation. I wonder if this was an actual Avengers branded range, as there was in the UK, or if Diana was just being used to advertise an normal clothing, as it were. |
It looks like Diana "as Emma" advertising non-Avengers clothes to me. The clothes themselves certainly don't look like the Avengers ranges. But that's just a guess.
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Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4585
Location: Carmadoc research establishment
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sinus1994 wrote: | Diana Rigg and boxer Billy Walker.
That's a photo from the "The Avengers Fashion" photo shooting for season 5 in 1967.
The dress looks similar, doesn't it?
At least just a bit...
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The wrinkly tights remind me of her wrinkly romper suits in the "color" era...
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Dandy Forsdyke
Diabolical Mastermind
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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Location: Camberwick Green
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: |
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This was taken back in the day of real photography. Today, any wrinkles in stockings would be photoshopped away.
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Sinus1994
Winged Avenger
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 604
Location: Hidden under Mrs Peel's bed
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| Timeless A-Peel wrote: |
Thanks for the German translations, Sinus. There are a lot of photos of Diana from German magazines (usually Bravo) floating around, but I'd never seen these particular ads before. Clearly it was a German-only endorsement. |
You're welcome Timeless.
If you find more "German photos" just tell me, I like doing the translations to help. 
| Timeless A-Peel wrote: | | I wonder if they cleared the correct legal channels to be able to say that "Mrs. Peel" was modelling their clothes? |
Well, the character of Mrs Peel is/was in Germany very popular.
So she was used for different adds, because evryone knew/knows her from the series.
But Diana Rigg herself is not so popular or even (well) known in Germany.
So I can imagine, that "Mrs Peel" was more recognised by the people than "Diana Rigg".
Sincerely yours,
Sinus1994 |
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Dandy Forsdyke
Diabolical Mastermind
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 5281
Location: Camberwick Green
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Timeless A-Peel wrote: | | I wonder if they cleared the correct legal channels to be able to say that "Mrs. Peel" was modelling their clothes? |
Good point. I'm lost when it comes to copyrights and trademarks, especially overseas. In 1969 the show was ending/had ended so perhaps it was overlooked but I really don't know. In those days, when a show ended that was it. There was no further life as it were, except repeats which might be why the Avengers comic strip in TV Comic lasted into 1972. Or perhaps they were using up the inventory.
I don't supposed Diana Rigg was terribly amused when she saw she was still being called 'Mrs Peel' for a job totally unrelated to The Avengers and years after she'd left.
Just realised. This is the same photo of her flipped over and not a separate pose. The two models are posing differently.
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Sinus1994
Winged Avenger
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 604
Location: Hidden under Mrs Peel's bed
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dandy Forsdyke wrote: |
I don't supposed Diana Rigg was terribly amused when she saw she was still being called 'Mrs Peel' for a job totally unrelated to The Avengers and years after she'd left. |
Was she called "Mrs Peel" after her department?
I just heared of something from her "Diana-Show".
Didn't they made such a card like Steed with "You're Needed" written on it?
I've heared/red of it, is that right or just a rumour... 
Sincerely yours,
Sinus1994 |
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Timeless A-Peel
A Touch of Brimstone
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 4866
Location: New Scotland, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Dandy Forsdyke wrote: | Good point. I'm lost when it comes to copyrights and trademarks, especially overseas. In 1969 the show was ending/had ended so perhaps it was overlooked but I really don't know. In those days, when a show ended that was it. There was no further life as it were, except repeats which might be why the Avengers comic strip in TV Comic lasted into 1972. Or perhaps they were using up the inventory.
I don't supposed Diana Rigg was terribly amused when she saw she was still being called 'Mrs Peel' for a job totally unrelated to The Avengers and years after she'd left.
Just realised. This is the same photo of her flipped over and not a separate pose. The two models are posing differently. |
Well, there's no question that the rights to the name "Emma Peel" and any and all images of Diana as Emma would be owned by ABC et al. at the time, and unauthorised use of it would be grounds to get you sued if you didn't get permission from the proper sources. As near as I can tell, though, they were quite a bit slacker about enforcing copyright and such back in the sixties, whether because it was just seen as too much effort, or because they just weren't aware of it in foreign markets like Germany, I haven't the foggiest, but when it was right on their doorstep and obvious enough that it'd cause problems, they seemed to get more riled up about it--I think they went after the guy who made the unauthorised Purdey perfume, which is why it disappeared so quickly. They're obviously much more protective of it now, and more likely to hear about it in the internet age.
A lot of it is down to the country where it happens, too. The ad's German, and a German court would probably side with the copyright holders. Other countries aren't quite as keen to recognise the violations. There's a knock-off of The Big Bang Theory running in another country, and Chuck Lorre has tried and failed to sue them for stealing his premise. So there are a lot of factors at play. Maybe they knew about it and just didn't care because Emma was already old news on the show. I'm sure Diana must have known that it was her role as Emma that was making her such a bankable quantity, particularly if she wasn't particularly well-known in Germany otherwise, as Sinus says--Das Diadem and The Minikillers were doing the same thing, and they didn't seem to get sued for billing her as Emma, either. Who knows?
| Sinus1994 wrote: | Was she called "Mrs Peel" after her department?
I just heared of something from her "Diana-Show".
Didn't they made such a card like Steed with "You're Needed" written on it?
I've heared/red of it, is that right or just a rumour... |
Yes, Diana did indeed do a short-lived American comedy series called Diana, and there was an episode where Patrick appeared as a guest star. His character gave Diana's character a card reading "Miss Smythe, You're Needed" as a little Avengers in-joke (Diana Smythe was the name of Diana's character in the series). But I don't know that she's ever been referred to as "Mrs. Peel" in any of her subsequent on-screen roles.
(And if I need any more German translations, I'll be certain to let you know. )
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Sinus1994
Winged Avenger
Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 604
Location: Hidden under Mrs Peel's bed
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Timeless A-Peel wrote: |
| Sinus1994 wrote: | Was she called "Mrs Peel" after her department?
I just heared of something from her "Diana-Show".
Didn't they made such a card like Steed with "You're Needed" written on it?
I've heared/red of it, is that right or just a rumour... |
Yes, Diana did indeed do a short-lived American comedy series called Diana, and there was an episode where Patrick appeared as a guest star. His character gave Diana's character a card reading "Miss Smythe, You're Needed" as a little Avengers in-joke (Diana Smythe was the name of Diana's character in the series). But I don't know that she's ever been referred to as "Mrs. Peel" in any of her subsequent on-screen roles. |
Pew! 
I wasn't sure about that.
Thanks Timeless.
Is known, how Diana's reaction about this TA-joke was?
Sincerely yours,
Sinus1994 |
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Dandy Forsdyke
Diabolical Mastermind
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 5281
Location: Camberwick Green
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Timeless A-Peel wrote: | | Maybe they knew about it and just didn't care because Emma was already old news on the show. I'm sure Diana must have known that it was her role as Emma that was making her such a bankable quantity, particularly if she wasn't particularly well-known in Germany otherwise, as Sinus says--Das Diadem and The Minikillers were doing the same thing, and they didn't seem to get sued for billing her as Emma, either. Who knows? |
Well, that's what I was wittering on about ... somehow I got lost in TV Comic along the way for some reason. I'll try and be more coherent tomorrow. Yes, a combination of a dead TV series and reference to a character in that dead series that had already left a couple of years before, there was nothing to 'protect'. Especially as it was abroad - and abroad in those days was like another planet away.
Diana may not even have been aware of the 'Emma Peel' reference in the ad - she's probably never seen it to this day. Just take the money and run. Why not.
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Timeless A-Peel
A Touch of Brimstone
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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Location: New Scotland, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dandy Forsdyke wrote: | | Timeless A-Peel wrote: | | Maybe they knew about it and just didn't care because Emma was already old news on the show. I'm sure Diana must have known that it was her role as Emma that was making her such a bankable quantity, particularly if she wasn't particularly well-known in Germany otherwise, as Sinus says--Das Diadem and The Minikillers were doing the same thing, and they didn't seem to get sued for billing her as Emma, either. Who knows? |
Well, that's what I was wittering on about ... somehow I got lost in TV Comic along the way for some reason. I'll try and be more coherent tomorrow. Yes, a combination of a dead TV series and reference to a character in that dead series that had already left a couple of years before, there was nothing to 'protect'. Especially as it was abroad - and abroad in those days was like another planet away.
Diana may not even have been aware of the 'Emma Peel' reference in the ad - she's probably never seen it to this day. Just take the money and run. Why not. |
Oh, yeah, I was sort of trying to come around and hook into that part of your post and didn't manage it.  So yes, a combination of abroad and an old character probably would have protected them because the motivation wasn't there. My point was that, regardless as to whether or not anyone sued for infringement (assuming no one asked permission), they had a right to, even if they didn't exercise it. And today they would most definitely exercise it.
You're probably right--Diana likely never saw the ad, or knew anything about how it was plugged. If she was paid decent, that was probably good enough. Ditto for Das Diadem. Lots of celebrities still do overseas ads for the money, because they know they won't be widely seen at home.
| Sinus1994 wrote: | Pew!
I wasn't sure about that.
Thanks Timeless.
Is known, how Diana's reaction about this TA-joke was? |
Don't worry, Sinus--your mind isn't playing tricks on you. I've been in this fandom so long, I can't recall if I actually watched the episode, or have just read umpteen little synopses of it. But the scene was scripted, so Diana's reaction was scripted as well. I believe her character greets it with fond amusement (Patrick's character is an old flame of her character's), though I'm sure some of Patrick and Diana's affection for one another would have shone through into their performances--they were good friends, after all, and would have been more than pleased to work together again. Actually, I think I may have seen it--I think I can picture them smiling at each other. I think I remember them going out to dinner or something. This is what too many years in a fandom does to you--you can't remember what you've seen and read anymore! 
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