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Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots: The Ultimate Avengers Book
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOEL wrote:
MikeR wrote:
Noel

I'm not aware of any problems with the first season information in Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots.
sci fi online was saying that it was I'm not saying it is ture they could be wrong.


Noel

The review of Sci Fi online is almost a year old and so all the amendments have been made to all electronic and the American print versions of Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots.

The timing of Hot Snow he claims to be 15 minutes long, but if you take a look at the first act on the Optimum DVD, youíll see I was correct there with my 21 minutes.

At the moment there are no plans to reprint the UK print version of the book, although the last time I spoke with Stephen James Walker of Telos Publishing, he informed me that they only had double figures left and that was months ago. If it were to be reprinted then all amendments would be incorporated. Personally I had hoped to locate substantially more information to make any reprint worth buying, such as locating the remaining Daily Production Reports for the outstanding Rigg episodes and The New Avengers.

However, my searching has not yielded any results. Exchanging emails with Brian Clemens weeks before his death with regard to both his paperwork and that of the late Albert Fennell, failed to discover any material. The reports could have gone to copyright holder Studio Canal, as upon his death Albert Fennellís personal papers went to a solicitor who disposed of them after winding up his estate.
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JohnSteedFr
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm at Series 6. I loved the beginning since I have that peculiar passion for the mysterious Bryce era, like the set from a scene of the original pilot later used as Mother's frontyard in 'the forget me knot'.

I also needed to move on to 'Homicide and Old Lace'--I couldn't wait-- to see if there were more pieces of the puzzle to find and indeed, I loved the description of all the scenes the original Bryce material contained. How did you get that? I asked Alan the other day if one could have a look at the original 'great gb crime' script nowadays and he said yes but at the BFI only. Shame they don't make an online copy. I wish I knew the dialogue from those missing scenes.
And I think we now know who the guy with Patrick Macnee is--his character's name-- in one photo on the Optimum dvd taken on an unknown set, some scene deleted for the final Clemens material. That unknown character who has a spacious living-room or office must be the one who works with Korff as well: a man called Hobson.

There's also a photo from the original ending somewhere on Ebay, it confirms or accompanies as I should say, what you say Mike in the book. Tara reveals she's got the real crown jewels.

Why can't we find this unseen material? (Also a bit thank you for listing all the 'invitation to....' material used in the remake. Another point I didn't know: Osonga, Nsonga's name in the Bryce episode).
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnSteedFr wrote:
I'm at Series 6. I loved the beginning since I have that peculiar passion for the mysterious Bryce era, like the set from a scene of the original pilot later used as Mother's frontyard in 'the forget me knot'.

I also needed to move on to 'Homicide and Old Lace'--I couldn't wait-- to see if there were more pieces of the puzzle to find and indeed, I loved the description of all the scenes the original Bryce material contained. How did you get that? I asked Alan the other day if one could have a look at the original 'great gb crime' script nowadays and he said yes but at the BFI only. Shame they don't make an online copy. I wish I knew the dialogue from those missing scenes.
And I think we now know who the guy with Patrick Macnee is--his character's name-- in one photo on the Optimum dvd taken on an unknown set, some scene deleted for the final Clemens material. That unknown character who has a spacious living-room or office must be the one who works with Korff as well: a man called Hobson.

There's also a photo from the original ending somewhere on Ebay, it confirms or accompanies as I should say, what you say Mike in the book. Tara reveals she's got the real crown jewels.

Why can't we find this unseen material? (Also a bit thank you for listing all the 'invitation to....' material used in the remake. Another point I didn't know: Osonga, Nsonga's name in the Bryce episode).


Joris

Alan is correct, the only example of the shooting script to The Great, Great Britain Crime, I know of exists at the British Film Institute and I visited their reading room in the National Film Theatre, on the south bank of the River Thames on the 16th January 2013.

Initially, I went to look at the outlines for unmade Avengers episodes from the Eric Paice collection, but I saw this on their list and hoped that it was a shooting script and so it would more or less be what was filmed for the actual episode. Luckily it was the shooting script and so I read through it and made notes as I went, particularly regarding the scenes which do not appear in Homicide and Old Lace.

It would be extremely good if the BFI and British Library put all their TV and film collections and industry publications into an on-line archive. I have suggested this to the guy who runs the British Library and suggested that the scanning would be paid for by charging a fee to allow access, just like Screenonline or the Variety Archive. But unfortunately the response I received was that they did not have to be cost effective because they have the backing of the British Government, which to me does seem to be an out of date attitude.
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NOEL
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeR wrote:
NOEL wrote:
MikeR wrote:
Noel

I'm not aware of any problems with the first season information in Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots.
sci fi online was saying that it was I'm not saying it is ture they could be wrong.


Noel

The review of Sci Fi online is almost a year old and so all the amendments have been made to all electronic and the American print versions of Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots.

The timing of Hot Snow he claims to be 15 minutes long, but if you take a look at the first act on the Optimum DVD, youíll see I was correct there with my 21 minutes.

At the moment there are no plans to reprint the UK print version of the book, although the last time I spoke with Stephen James Walker of Telos Publishing, he informed me that they only had double figures left and that was months ago. If it were to be reprinted then all amendments would be incorporated. Personally I had hoped to locate substantially more information to make any reprint worth buying, such as locating the remaining Daily Production Reports for the outstanding Rigg episodes and The New Avengers.

However, my searching has not yielded any results. Exchanging emails with Brian Clemens weeks before his death with regard to both his paperwork and that of the late Albert Fennell, failed to discover any material. The reports could have gone to copyright holder Studio Canal, as upon his death Albert Fennellís personal papers went to a solicitor who disposed of them after winding up his estate.
Thank you very much for that so how would I get hold of a US copy of the book if that is better thent he UK one.
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noel

Amazon USA stock it.
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NOEL
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeR wrote:
Noel

Amazon USA stock it.
so that is a better copy to get then and how do I know that it is a USA copy.
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noel

I think that's something you'll have to take up with Amazon.
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NOEL
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeR wrote:
Noel

I think that's something you'll have to take up with Amazon.
ok just wish the UK book was ok would be a lot easier to get hold off. Thanks for all your help and time.
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Rodders
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, as you know I love the book, but if you do update it, it would be nice to have Colin Finbow's take on Surfeit of H20 rather than BC's standard 'I wrote it'.
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
Mike, as you know I love the book, but if you do update it, it would be nice to have Colin Finbow's take on Surfeit of H20 rather than BC's standard 'I wrote it'.


Rodney

Any reprinting is down to Steve James Walker and David J. Howe of Telos Publishing and if they think there's still a market out there for another edition of Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots.

As I said, should another chunk of informative paperwork suddenly turn up then I'd be most interested in sharing it through another printing.
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JohnSteedFr
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have more info about the original material from 'Invasion of the Earthmen', if you checked the original script as well, by any chance?
So, from what I understood, there were more scenes inside the school about the training the teens are following, like that room where Steed would have flown like the astronaut in a spectacular way? Something to do with gravity. Fantastic!!!!

Did you like the script of 'GGBC' from what you remember? How awful the style was that made it 'unshowable'? There must have been some god awful scene. The ones I can think of are with Steed using a gun and swordstick to kill.

I'm currently reading the part after Linda got her real hair back. As I can see, a lot of material shot by John Hough in particular didn't make it to the final versions...Unused locations for example or that actor who got all his scenes deleted from 'You'll catch your death', or the unseen original intro to 'super secret cypher snatch'! Surprised Shocked Shocked
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joris

Thanks again for giving great feedback on Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots.

I donít have a script for Invasion of the Earthmen, only dialogue sheets, which duplicate all the dialogue from the shooting script with some directional instructions.

I have heard of a scene where Steed entered a room and was sent flying into the air by an anti-gravity device, but this was not in the shooting script, so logically it had to be in an earlier draft script, but as I could not verify its origin I did not include it.

To include the later Brian Clemens filmed scenes, which explain why Taraís hair is blonde, I think that something must have been removed to allow space for the new material.

My instant reaction to reading the shooting script of The Great Great Britain Crime was that it was a very complicated plot and when portions were edited into Homicide and Old Lace, they used the easier to understand parts of the storyline.

There were bits and pieces that did not get included in episodes, sometimes for timing reasons. This was not something that happened exclusively with the Tara King episodes, as Diana Rigg and a guest star spent a full day at Tykes Water Lake filming scenes for The $50,000 Breakfast that do not appear in the episode.

Character actor Royston Tickner was called at 10.30 am to a soundstage at Elstree Studios to do some filming for Youíll Catch Your Death, but because filming was apparently running behind schedule, he was not actually used. Presumably his scenes were cut as being unnecessary to the storyline, although he will have been paid for his day at Elstree. This situation occurs on other episodes as youíll find out when you get to the episode Thingamjig.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what the original teaser sequence for Super Secret Cypher Snatch was like. I have only seen paperwork saying that it did not work and that a new one would be written and filmed.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeR wrote:

My instant reaction to reading the shooting script of The Great Great Britain Crime was that it was a very complicated plot and when portions were edited into Homicide and Old Lace, they used the easier to understand parts of the storyline.


I'd love to read that script to see what Dicks and Hulke concocted between them.

MikeR wrote:
There were bits and pieces that did not get included in episodes, sometimes for timing reasons.


Of course, the obvious one is Penelope Keith being edited out of Something Nasty in the Nursery - there's a horrible jump with Trevor Bannisters character suddenly comes in telling about something we haven't seen. And David Lodge's sword expert in Fog. Pity.
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JohnSteedFr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Avengers, here we come! Laughing

I concluded the last chapter from the first show. Again, I learnt new things, this time with one of my favorite episodes: Take Over (ie: the ambulance that comes to Steed's rescue and the character hearing the truth lying behind Grenville's stay at the Bassett's.

I guess my following question is a tad bit ridiculous but would they keep, at that time, the cut material, aiming to preserve it as 'records' etc?
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
MikeR wrote:

My instant reaction to reading the shooting script of The Great Great Britain Crime was that it was a very complicated plot and when portions were edited into Homicide and Old Lace, they used the easier to understand parts of the storyline.


I'd love to read that script to see what Dicks and Hulke concocted between them.

MikeR wrote:
There were bits and pieces that did not get included in episodes, sometimes for timing reasons.


Of course, the obvious one is Penelope Keith being edited out of Something Nasty in the Nursery - there's a horrible jump with Trevor Bannisters character suddenly comes in telling about something we haven't seen. And David Lodge's sword expert in Fog. Pity.


Darren

As mentioned you can see the shooting script for The Great Great Britain Crime, all you need to do is arrange this by contacting the BFI, who will set a day and time for you to visit their reading room at the National Film Theatre in London. Because of copyright you will not be allowed to take photocopies of any part of it and anything that uses ink to write is not allowed inside the reading room.

Besides, Penelope Keith's non-appearance, Nicole Shelby is credited for Mission... Highly Improbable and she does not appear, plus Jack Woolgar was called, but not used in Thingumajig.


Last edited by MikeR on Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnSteedFr wrote:
New Avengers, here we come! Laughing

I concluded the last chapter from the first show. Again, I learnt new things, this time with one of my favorite episodes: Take Over (ie: the ambulance that comes to Steed's rescue and the character hearing the truth lying behind Grenville's stay at the Bassett's.

I guess my following question is a tad bit ridiculous but would they keep, at that time, the cut material, aiming to preserve it as 'records' etc?


Joris

Hopefully you'll find the section on The New Avengers as informative as the previous chapters.

Material edited from several early colour Rigg episodes including From Venus with Love was retained and included on the Optimum DVD release, so there is the chance that other pieces of footage edited from other episodes could still exist in Studio Canal's archive. As Jaz Wiseman did the extras for the DVD sets, I think that he would have more idea about that than anyone else.
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JohnSteedFr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's been done already (ie: complete research at the archives). Jaz himself if I remember told us there was no other unseen footage there. Crying or Very sad

Or maybe there is, but due to copyrights issues or costs, it cannot be released, yet...
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joris

Material can always turn up from other sources such as the British Film Institute, or the National Media Museum, where after being missing for decades a copy of the promo film The Case of the Missing Corpse was located in a film can that was wrongly marked up.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll start reading the part after the one talking about the 1998 movie. It's great to list all the deleted scenes that didn't make it--shame when I think of it, that last year's bluray didn't contain the director's cut. Crying or Very sad

Though Emily isn't a good episode, according to me, I agree with what the book said, it ended with humour, one last time. But I wish they had filmed some official ending for the NA period, with champagne naturally! Laughing Smile
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joris

I'm pleased that you are still enjoying Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots. Unfortunately, Jeremiah Chechik failed to stamp his authority on the movie and lacked confidence in editing the film together. There were as many as 9 different versions of each reel of the film. However, when Warner Brothers saw it they decided to audience test it in the States, not once, but twice. The negative results from these tests brought about more shooting and the addition of the mechanical insect sequence and then even more editing and cutting together.

I'm really indebted to Mick Audsley and Duncan Barber who worked on The Avengers film for assisting greatly with the research on the movie.
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