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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the fanzines ended, we were starting to get better video releases. Then of course came DVD with all its tribulations, and the internet took off so all fans could talk to each other again, something that had started fading with the demise of the fanzines and fan clubs around the time of the movie. So it wasn't all bad; times change, I suppose.
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anti-clockwise
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
One of the worst aspects of the movie was that Dave Rogers's involvement in advising and reporting on it, with the subsequent poor critical reaction, seemed to have destroyed the enthusiasm of Dave for The Avengers, leading to the near-instantaneous end of magazines like On Target and Stay Tuned.
I know the movie was sub par but why would that stop fanzine?
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
Frankymole wrote:
One of the worst aspects of the movie was that Dave Rogers's involvement in advising and reporting on it, with the subsequent poor critical reaction, seemed to have destroyed the enthusiasm of Dave for The Avengers, leading to the near-instantaneous end of magazines like On Target and Stay Tuned.
I know the movie was sub par but why would that stop fanzine?


Hi Anti,

This is an interesting topic and I agree with Frankymole, that "Stay Tuned" came to the end when the bad reviews influenced on Dave (though, not all have been critical to the movie The Avengers, someone even liked it). So this has influenced the decline of public interest not only to the fanzine, which was quite faint in the latest editions, as basically covers topics surrounding the movie The Avengers, but the series as a whole (in this case I say only about late 1990s). Why? Because many of the new generation repelled by this movie, and for many from the older generation was obvious that the official failure of the movie can to make forget the business people about The Avengers for a long time. Well, fortunately that did not happen.
I am convinced that the buy of fanzine was sharply lower, Dave trying just avoid the bankruptcy of their offspring, posted in last issue a half of the material for The New Professionals, but it did not help, as really there was necessary to revive the theme of the series. Last issue just totally destroyed the fanzine. Sad

An important point worth considering is the belief of some people that development, so to say, the Avengerland in Internet has affected to discontinue of the publication of fanzines and interest to potential editions.

But take, for example, "Le fanzine", it was issued even in the mid-2000s and always keep the interest of the public, in this case for French.
Thus we see that the relevance of fanzines was, is and will be, as any original or interesting stuff is always worthy of special consideration.
Recently, fans got a very good "gifts" in the form of books, The Strange Case of the Missing Episodes & Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots, so why would not continue to exist good fanzines. Very Happy

Wink
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anti-clockwise
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denis it is so lovely to hear from you! How have you been? So it sounds in a way like it was not just Dave but the fact that the public if you will turned their back on the whole series-or to some extent-and he could not really keep it going. I did not realise that the movie had such a bad effect on our beloved series. I can see it could have revived the series if it had been successful, but i did not realise it would have such a negative effect. I certainly could separate it out from the tv series.

Was there anyone in the movie that was actually involved at all in the series? Question Can't blame the series if no one asked them Exclamation
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jaz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the publisher of a 'fanzine' (The Morning After), I have often been asked why TMA ceased publication - there were a number of reasons why that I won't go into here but let's just say I'm sure Dave Rogers experienced a similar situation to myself which the rise of the internet and the knock-on effect to subscriptions.

The internet certainly moved the goalposts for fanzines. I'm surprised that Fanderson's FAB magazine has survived but they generate large amounts of money through Fanderson' Sales so they afford the luxury of the magazine making a loss - something that many other fanzine publishers can't.
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaz wrote:
Ralph Fiennes was awful as Steed (pretentious as well with the way he insists his name is pronounced! He'll always be Ralf to me with the oversized bowler who can't act for toffee!) - controversial I know but that's what I think.


As Jaz points out this film can really cause some strong reactions.
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Lhbizness
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you come down to it, The Avengers was a TV show. It was made for a small screen, with characters, scripts, and plots that only needed to be maintained for about 50 minutes. TV is a different medium from film, it has different narrative strictures - it's like a short story vs. a novel. The most successful TV-to-film adaptations are the ones that don't attempt to replicate the formula of the show, but do something different with it. There are those that really depart completely from the show (Mission: Impossible) and those that try to maintain the "spirit" (Get Smart).

The Avengers has ridiculous plots, particularly moving into the later eras, and many of them really don't stand up to close scrutiny, but work fine for a 50 minute program. I think The Avengers movie tried to replicate that without taking into account the difference in mediums (not to mention characters, stars, etc.). That, combined with poor casting (no one else will ever be John Steed or Emma Peel and it seems a bad idea to try) and a rather half-hearted attempt to update the show without actually changing the characters outward appearance, pretty much killed it.
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
Denis it is so lovely to hear from you! How have you been? So it sounds in a way like it was not just Dave but the fact that the public if you will turned their back on the whole series-or to some extent-and he could not really keep it going. I did not realise that the movie had such a bad effect on our beloved series. I can see it could have revived the series if it had been successful, but i did not realise it would have such a negative effect. I certainly could separate it out from the tv series.

Was there anyone in the movie that was actually involved at all in the series? Question Can't blame the series if no one asked them Exclamation


Hi Anti

I was a little busy on the weekend, but now again in Avengerland. Very Happy
Everything is wonderful and today I'm back to work on the filmography on Steedumbrella. Well, details will already off-topic, thus we come to the movie. Wink

Definitely a big part of the public was dissatisfied with the Avengers 1998, regardless of whether they were fans of the series or not, but Dave did not go to meet to keep the audience around him. Can you imagine fan already saw the movie, got a negative charge of energy, and he's set to the fact that out of head all that is associated with this project. Nevertheless, he goes to buy its favorite fanzine Stay Tuned and in horror sees that Dave filled it by another movie sauce with a minimum contribution to the series. I am sure that a potential buyer just feels frustrated and credibility of the magazine drops in his eyes. Demand falls. Obviously.
I think that in general it is the best fanzine, among others, and Dave will always be one of the most important and significant people in the history of Avengerland, but I really do not know what prevented him save his "child". Confused
Hmm, I do not think that the Internet has had a profound influence on this (although certainly times have changed), because if you are able to produce an interesting magazine with info, which you will not find on the internet, then it will certainly pay off. Wink
(except in the case if someone will scan it on the Internet. I do not go against a such system, but I believe that you should first to give the product to paid off)


Bad effect the movie on the series

It is also affected by the fact that there were so many praise for the movie even long time before the preview. Patrick Macnee also did his contribution in it. This was quite successful advertising for the company, which attracted the audience by all this sugar cocktail. The viewer which not particularly familiar with the series waited in anticipation of a blockbuster epic, which was supposed to be something as the James Bond films. Thus, dissapointment by what he saw, mercilessly hits on the series, in the late 1990s. Well, you know such people who are judged by an actor or director only from one work. There were people who thought "if this is the best movie, as it advertised, what then is the series". It was a time when you could not think that there will be a new wave of fans, as those who watched the series for the first time after the movie, found it in a completely different way than what they could expect. Avengers movie - serious cinema, while the series is made in a humorous style. People were just expecting to see something approximate to a movie, a serious spy series, (that memorable 1990s was a time of the X-Files, which are captured by the fashion in formula of series) and the audience just did not go deep into material, suspecting that the The Avengers of the 1960s has been selected for the implementation of in the movie on the grounds that it was outdated and required a new incarnation. That's it.
Some fans of the series just felt that they were deceived, and so it was, and it was a period of spiritual crisis, when it was the realization that this is the end for future large-scale projects.
Then I can talk about what happened in Russia, when the remainder of the majority of fans in 1998 watched the show with some depression and they just pulled out from self of a smile or a laugh. Some left the fan club, lost interest in the series, as they did not seen the future. That was the worst. Can you believe that the person who engaged in the development program for the fan club and was obsessed with the idea of creating a Russian audio series just left it? I and the other founders of the club could not have anyone to promise anything, and none of us really could not keep the fans by anything. I remember that this movie destroyed the minds of some Russian fans and I really hated this movie then. You can understand why on Steedumbrella no section for this movie, and why I try to avoid any mention of this there.
As about the movie, I'm very much amazed that Uma Thurman was chosen for the role of Emma Peel! I do not know what guided the choice of the creators of the actress for such project (except for appearance). It was very stupid in my opinion, even if you look at the movie as something separate. She plays a role as a fashion model, it seems to me, and it's not even funny or witty. The scenery of the movie is not much match in the style. And the biggest minus - is mounting. This is about the same as if you are watching a movie "Quantum of Solace".
And I really do not like changes as an image of Ronda, the role of Patrick Macnee, and Steed's strong frivolity. I just do not believe that Ralph Fiennes is a government agent (no not an agent of the first class), but in general, agent of the Ministry. He plays as if it was his first assignment. Well, you can once again see the movie and you'll see what I mean.
Oh, I think it makes no sense to continue my criticism, it has been a lot for late 1990s.
But I am hopeful as well as all the fans that someday we will see new movie the Avengers, with tears of happiness, a turning point for the revival Avengerland. Wink
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anti-clockwise
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for a most thorough explanation Denis. I have not seen the movie in a long while but that is a good description of Uma, as a fashion model. Mrs. Peel was certainly more than that. I recall Uma said she was quite intimidated doing that part. And i can see why. But I really can't think of a current actress for that role. It would not be easy to casta new Mrs. peel. Can you think of anyone that could pull that off?

But i would love to see a new Avengers. There is so much interest in Bond, it is a shame they can't remake an Avengers that is decent.y cast. But was there anyone involved from the original crew of Avengers in the movie? it seems to me that they never consulted Brian Clemens. Perhaps you say Patrick but it sounds like he was just a media magnet for advertising and really knew little about the movie itself?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The movie was a very depressing viewing experience. I saw the Lost in Space movie on the Wednesday and it was passable entertainment (I love the soundtrack by Bruce Broughton), it was preceded by an Avengers trailer and even then I got a... something's wrong. Then on the Thursday I saw the film in a preview cinema at my local, very tiny screen and there were about ten other people in the room if that. I had a notebook with me to record stuff. The opening titles were nicely designed but there was a lack of energy and passion and flair that I expected. It was nice to hear the Avengers theme in the training ground scene but it was all so flat. When it got to the scene of Mrs. Peel visiting De Wynter in his greenhouse, I remember noting "I'm bored". That feeling never left me and I could feel the disinterest around me.

It had a positive outcome as to re-encourage myself that the show was actually good I watched an episode that hadn't gripped me previously (A Funny Thing Happened) and it came alive, wit, style, colour, fun, passion, verve, inventiveness. Then I got angry that they'd screwed up the film so badly and started dissecting it. It's significant failure makes it fascinating but leaves you gutted of what could have been.
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jaz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

denisrigg wrote:


Hi Anti

Hmm, I do not think that the Internet has had a profound influence on this (although certainly times have changed), because if you are able to produce an interesting magazine with info, which you will not find on the internet, then it will certainly pay off. Wink
(except in the case if someone will scan it on the Internet. I do not go against a such system, but I believe that you should first to give the product to paid off)


I have to disagree here - the internet has changed everything in terms of magazine and book publishing - why do you think so many magazines have folded, disappeared and that now every major publication offers a ebook/emagazine version. I deliberately kept all my TMA mags off the internet but that didn't stop sales plummeting.

Having worked in the design and publishing industry pre and post internet I've seen it with my own eyes. Nowadays it doesn't matter how good your magazine is, convincing people to part with the cash is difficult and even hardcore fans don't always purchase everything - for example, look at The Avengers calendar. When it was first published it sold nearly 10,000 units by the end of the Slow Dazzle years it was struggling to sell 2000. It can't be the quality of the printing, the images used (as many were previously unpublished), perhaps it was the price (how many people waited until it was half price? About 80%) or that the market became saturated with other film and TV tie-in calendars.
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anti-clockwise
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaz wrote:
denisrigg wrote:


Hi Anti

Hmm, I do not think that the Internet has had a profound influence on this (although certainly times have changed), because if you are able to produce an interesting magazine with info, which you will not find on the internet, then it will certainly pay off. Wink
(except in the case if someone will scan it on the Internet. I do not go against a such system, but I believe that you should first to give the product to paid off)


I have to disagree here - the internet has changed everything in terms of magazine and book publishing - why do you think so many magazines have folded, disappeared and that now every major publication offers a ebook/emagazine version. I deliberately kept all my TMA mags off the internet but that didn't stop sales plummeting.

Having worked in the design and publishing industry pre and post internet I've seen it with my own eyes. Nowadays it doesn't matter how good your magazine is, convincing people to part with the cash is difficult and even hardcore fans don't always purchase everything - for example, look at The Avengers calendar. When it was first published it sold nearly 10,000 units by the end of the Slow Dazzle years it was struggling to sell 2000. It can't be the quality of the printing, the images used (as many were previously unpublished), perhaps it was the price (how many people waited until it was half price? About 80%) or that the market became saturated with other film and TV tie-in calendars.
I can completely understand your frustration. Internet has both good and bad. . It has certainly had a negative effect in general on journalism which I find disturbing as well. I think there are so many sources of information people get too distracted-and not always in a positive way.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaz wrote:

I have to disagree here - the internet has changed everything in terms of magazine and book publishing - why do you think so many magazines have folded


One of the negative aspects to the internet. It's so good in many ways, but so bad for people like me who love to own a proper collection including magazines and those terrific calendars. So many great undiscovered photos in all of them. There's plenty on the internet too, but they'll never be yours in the same way. The internet is fleeting, and in time this forum will also disappear and the only photos I'll have will be in the books and calendars, which I have hoarded religiously! Smile It is a shame that permanent momentos have been replaced by something that's here today, gone tomorrow, but such is life today.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
...But I really can't think of a current actress for that role. It would not be easy to casta new Mrs. peel. Can you think of anyone that could pull that off?

But i would love to see a new Avengers....

Sorry for gate-crashing your discussion, but I read your question and had a think about possible Emma Peel candidates...

Alexandra Dowling would get my support, mostly for her roles in Poirot and The Musketeers.
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jaz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
jaz wrote:
denisrigg wrote:


Hi Anti

Hmm, I do not think that the Internet has had a profound influence on this (although certainly times have changed), because if you are able to produce an interesting magazine with info, which you will not find on the internet, then it will certainly pay off. Wink
(except in the case if someone will scan it on the Internet. I do not go against a such system, but I believe that you should first to give the product to paid off)


I have to disagree here - the internet has changed everything in terms of magazine and book publishing - why do you think so many magazines have folded, disappeared and that now every major publication offers a ebook/emagazine version. I deliberately kept all my TMA mags off the internet but that didn't stop sales plummeting.

Having worked in the design and publishing industry pre and post internet I've seen it with my own eyes. Nowadays it doesn't matter how good your magazine is, convincing people to part with the cash is difficult and even hardcore fans don't always purchase everything - for example, look at The Avengers calendar. When it was first published it sold nearly 10,000 units by the end of the Slow Dazzle years it was struggling to sell 2000. It can't be the quality of the printing, the images used (as many were previously unpublished), perhaps it was the price (how many people waited until it was half price? About 80%) or that the market became saturated with other film and TV tie-in calendars.


I can completely understand your frustration. Internet has both good and bad. . It has certainly had a negative effect in general on journalism which I find disturbing as well. I think there are so many sources of information people get too distracted-and not always in a positive way.

And it is wrong to copy people's work and sell it. That is outrageous.


I'm not frustrated by the internet, it has some great attributes but it has changed the way people view written material. I prefer to read a book than off screen and I just don't like ebooks - I have nothing against them as objects but they are just not my thing.
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anti-clockwise
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
...But I really can't think of a current actress for that role. It would not be easy to casta new Mrs. peel. Can you think of anyone that could pull that off?

But i would love to see a new Avengers....

Sorry for gate-crashing your discussion, but I read your question and had a think about possible Emma Peel candidates...

Alexandra Dowling would get my support, mostly for her roles in Poirot and The Musketeers.
not at all. Interesting choices. All would be better than the one that was chosen.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
Spaceship Dispatcher wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
...But I really can't think of a current actress for that role. It would not be easy to casta new Mrs. peel. Can you think of anyone that could pull that off?

But i would love to see a new Avengers....

Sorry for gate-crashing your discussion, but I read your question and had a think about possible Emma Peel candidates...

Alexandra Dowling would get my support, mostly for her roles in Poirot and The Musketeers.
not at all. Interesting choices. All would be better than the one that was chosen.


If to look at the options of the time, those who are considered at the candidacy of Emma Peel, then I would choose only two actresses - Miranda Richardson and Elizabeth Hurley. Well, I think they are well adapted to the different roles and their style of play would be allowed to make a fascinating image of the heroine. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaz wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
jaz wrote:
denisrigg wrote:


Hi Anti

Hmm, I do not think that the Internet has had a profound influence on this (although certainly times have changed), because if you are able to produce an interesting magazine with info, which you will not find on the internet, then it will certainly pay off. Wink
(except in the case if someone will scan it on the Internet. I do not go against a such system, but I believe that you should first to give the product to paid off)


I have to disagree here - the internet has changed everything in terms of magazine and book publishing - why do you think so many magazines have folded, disappeared and that now every major publication offers a ebook/emagazine version. I deliberately kept all my TMA mags off the internet but that didn't stop sales plummeting.

Having worked in the design and publishing industry pre and post internet I've seen it with my own eyes. Nowadays it doesn't matter how good your magazine is, convincing people to part with the cash is difficult and even hardcore fans don't always purchase everything - for example, look at The Avengers calendar. When it was first published it sold nearly 10,000 units by the end of the Slow Dazzle years it was struggling to sell 2000. It can't be the quality of the printing, the images used (as many were previously unpublished), perhaps it was the price (how many people waited until it was half price? About 80%) or that the market became saturated with other film and TV tie-in calendars.


I can completely understand your frustration. Internet has both good and bad. . It has certainly had a negative effect in general on journalism which I find disturbing as well. I think there are so many sources of information people get too distracted-and not always in a positive way.

And it is wrong to copy people's work and sell it. That is outrageous.


I'm not frustrated by the internet, it has some great attributes but it has changed the way people view written material. I prefer to read a book than off screen and I just don't like ebooks - I have nothing against them as objects but they are just not my thing.



It's nice to hear that many people with whom I talk prefer to real books, no ebooks. I also do not like it, because mainly I do not feel a pleasure from it.
However, if I only need the information, it really is an easier way, but if you read the fiction or something where needs to disclose your imagination, it does not give the desired effect, there just do not find a deep relationship of the author with the reader, and thus there is no desirable pleasure. This may sound like nonsense, but I feel it.

Yes, Jaz, I will agree with you, since I have never dealt with the production of fanzines and things like that, I just thought that the influence of the Internet was not as strong as it may seem.
Well, I find it hard to imagine that if, for example, a book Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots would be released at a time when there was no Internet, it would had greater demand. People just would buy it in order to get this information. It does not matter in the 1960s or today.
I think here is worth to consider the statistics of the fandom. Compared to the fandom of the 1990s, and today, the difference is huge. Though today we get the official products for add support life of Avengerland, but a feeling that many are waiting for something bigger and a huge fandom just slowly deflates. It is noticeable on the topics of the forum, for example, many crave the series on Blu-Ray, and the units are interesting new comics. That is the basis of this, the demand for goods fell by far, since it is no longer the former fandom. Well, I can not imagine that now opens a new fan club dedicated to the series, but I could imagine it approx. 10 years ago.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaz wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
jaz wrote:
denisrigg wrote:


Hi Anti

Hmm, I do not think that the Internet has had a profound influence on this (although certainly times have changed), because if you are able to produce an interesting magazine with info, which you will not find on the internet, then it will certainly pay off. Wink
(except in the case if someone will scan it on the Internet. I do not go against a such system, but I believe that you should first to give the product to paid off)


I have to disagree here - the internet has changed everything in terms of magazine and book publishing - why do you think so many magazines have folded, disappeared and that now every major publication offers a ebook/emagazine version. I deliberately kept all my TMA mags off the internet but that didn't stop sales plummeting.

Having worked in the design and publishing industry pre and post internet I've seen it with my own eyes. Nowadays it doesn't matter how good your magazine is, convincing people to part with the cash is difficult and even hardcore fans don't always purchase everything - for example, look at The Avengers calendar. When it was first published it sold nearly 10,000 units by the end of the Slow Dazzle years it was struggling to sell 2000. It can't be the quality of the printing, the images used (as many were previously unpublished), perhaps it was the price (how many people waited until it was half price? About 80%) or that the market became saturated with other film and TV tie-in calendars.


I can completely understand your frustration. Internet has both good and bad. . It has certainly had a negative effect in general on journalism which I find disturbing as well. I think there are so many sources of information people get too distracted-and not always in a positive way.

And it is wrong to copy people's work and sell it. That is outrageous.


I'm not frustrated by the internet, it has some great attributes but it has changed the way people view written material. I prefer to read a book than off screen and I just don't like ebooks - I have nothing against them as objects but they are just not my thing.


I agree with Jaz, the e-book is the most unnecessary invention ever.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeR wrote:
I agree with Jaz, the e-book is the most unnecessary invention ever.


As long as people are reading, I am happy for them to read however they wish. But as a personal preference, I'm always in favour of physical books.
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The Avengers Declassified

Hidden Tiger Books - now available: Avengerworld
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