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Dutch DVD releases
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Philippa
The Big Thinker


Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 1381
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, I'm so not buying these Evil or Very Mad
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Catweazle
Nutshell


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norbert wrote:
Strange!

Are the episodes at least complete? For example, the French version of "Castle De'ath" runs only hardly 48 minutes, whereas the English original runs almost 50 minutes.

In the episode, "Silent Dust", the text in the wanted poster in Steed's nightmare, is in French only.

In the episode, "The Girl From Auntie", there are several cuts - two scenes (Steed's conversation with Ivanov and the announcement for tea time in the knitting circle) are even mixed together!

(But I'm still looking forward to the first German box set announced for 22nd February, 2009 anyway! Cool)


Just have a look into the german cinefacts forum - there was already some whining going on because Kinowelt might use transfers with original british credits..
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Peter Motte
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Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Workaholic wrote:
Peter Motte wrote:
Today I received the complete 1965-66 black & white season with Emma Peel.
I hadn't even noticed it was a Peel-season, because I hadn't recognized her on the cover picture.

I received this set too, and it has French credits Evil or Very Mad

Here some samples:



Click to enlarge !

Now, that's odd indeed.
I haven't seen them yet. Didn't have time. Sad
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Allard
The Ministry


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I see it again, it really is incredible stupid of A-Film.
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Peter Motte
Little Wonder


Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allard wrote:
Now I see it again, it really is incredible stupid of A-Film.

I don't think it's a question of stupid.
I think they did it because of the Belgian market. That's a bilingual French/Dutch market, and as you know, the French have the habit of dubbing tv series instead of subtitling them. The credits are translated too, to mach the dubbing.
It's also more convenient for the French market to put the French credits on it.
Odd, yes.
Stupid, no.
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Allard
The Ministry


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Motte wrote:
Allard wrote:
Now I see it again, it really is incredible stupid of A-Film.

I don't think it's a question of stupid.
I think they did it because of the Belgian market. That's a bilingual French/Dutch market, and as you know, the French have the habit of dubbing tv series instead of subtitling them. The credits are translated too, to mach the dubbing.
It's also more convenient for the French market to put the French credits on it.
Odd, yes.
Stupid, no.



That makes no logic because the Flemish people aren't too keen on French so they would buy Dutch DVD sets, where the Walloon would (and would probably only) buy French DVD sets.
I think the most likely explanation is that they got the wrong materiel from Canal + and in their complete ignorance they did not even know it was wrong.
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Peter Motte
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Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allard wrote:

That makes no logic because the Flemish people aren't too keen on French


But they don't hate it either. You shouldn't believe everything media and politicians tell you. Most Flemish speak French perfectly well.

Allard wrote:


I think the most likely explanation is that they got the wrong materiel from Canal + and in their complete ignorance they did not even know it was wrong.

You're completely wrong.
My parents didn't even know that "De wrekers" was "The Avengers" in English. They always call it "Chapon melon" (French for "bowler hat"), which is the first part of the French series title: "Chapon melon et bottes de cuir".
My mother, however, is convinced they never watched the series in French, because that would have been too difficult.
So, why do they know and even use the French title?
The only explanation is that it was broadcasted with Dutch subtitles but with the French credits, which is perfectly explainable in Belgium.
So, when A-Film puts the French credits on the dvd, it gives the viewers the original viewing experience.
Don't forget that Belgian television was one organisation in the 60's of the past century. We were watching BRT = Belgische Radio & Television. In Wallonia they were watching the RTB = Radio et tÚlÚvision belge. But it was ONE organisation.
The split up between VRT (Vlaamse Radio en Televisie) and RTBf (Radio et tÚlÚvision belge francophone) is rather recent.
That means that originally series like the Avengers were bought by 1 organism to be broadcased for both parts of the country. Which explains why you could get French credits and Dutch subtitles.
More: nowadays Belgium is a federation, with Flanders and Wallonia as its constituant parts.
However, in the sixties that was not the case. There was not something like "the two parts of Belgium". Belgium was supposedly bilingual everywhere in the country. That was nonsense, of course, but it does mean officially you could get everything everywhere in both languages.
The clear devision in a French and Dutch part is a recent development.
There is lots you can tell about that, you know, lots of details people aren't aware of.
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Allard
The Ministry


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know most Belgians are not as happy with the growing divide as politicians and the media appear to be. And I knew the TV split in Belgium is fairly recent. But thanks for your personal insight on how it was in the sixties, great too know and read.

But I can't imagine A-Film doing this on purpose. They are a Dutch company and why have they done all the other seasons with the original title screens?

A-Film's DVD's are of great quality but they manage to include no extras, get episode descriptions mixed-up, even more episode descriptions wrong.
And the season two names Propellant 23 just Propellant.

I can't see one reason to put in the French title screen, yet they have a history of inexactitudes. I know on which explanations my money is.

But on the other hand, If they willingly choose for the French title screens, it would be something that defied all logic. Which (considering it is A-Film) would be the most likely option.
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Peter Motte
Little Wonder


Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that having French title scenes is odd.
My feeling is, that using the French title scenes made it possible to put one version on the market to provide for different markets. Otherwise they could be obliged to make different versions, which might be troublesome to get enough copies sold.
Part of the problem might lay in the fact that of some seasons the title scenes were translated.
Anyway, the odds are that it was broadcasted on Flemish television with those French title scenes and Dutch subtitles.
The question remains: how was it broadcasted in the Netherlands?
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The Workaholic
Nutshell


Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 12
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Motte wrote:
Allard wrote:
Now I see it again, it really is incredible stupid of A-Film.

I don't think it's a question of stupid.
I think they did it because of the Belgian market. That's a bilingual French/Dutch market, and as you know, the French have the habit of dubbing tv series instead of subtitling them. The credits are translated too, to mach the dubbing.
It's also more convenient for the French market to put the French credits on it.
Odd, yes.
Stupid, no.


If they did it for the Belgian market, why not include the French language version ? There is no French dubbing to match with the credits. And why didn't they use French credits on the earlier releases ? Your explanation doesn't make sense.
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Philippa
The Big Thinker


Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 1381
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allard wrote:

That makes no logic because the Flemish people aren't too keen on French so they would buy Dutch DVD sets, where the Walloon would (and would probably only) buy French DVD sets.
I think the most likely explanation is that they got the wrong materiel from Canal + and in their complete ignorance they did not even know it was wrong.


I think this is the most logical explanation to be honest. They just messed up..
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Catweazle
Nutshell


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup - they screwed up, and it seems like theres no quality control! For me personally something like that is reason enough NOT to buy! I want a series in its original form and that includes original credit sequences and such!
But i also think canal+ is partly responsible for this. Wouldnt be the first time they messed up!
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Peter Motte
Little Wonder


Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This morning I've watched "The Cybernauts", and I've noticed they've translated "hang on" as "Blijf even hangen"., instead of as "Wacht even" or "Blijf even aan de lijn".
"Blijf even hangen" literaly means "Keep hanging for a while".
Or they've used the original translation, but "hang on" means "wacht even" since ages, or it's a new translation, done with computer aided translation and without seeing the context, which would have made clear that somebody was on the phone.
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Peter Motte
Little Wonder


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't know exactly what my parents have been watching, back in the 60's, when they saw The Avengers.
Was it on Dutch Belgian television? Or was it on French Belgian television?
Not knowing that, I don't know whether they have seen French credits AND Dutch subtitles, or French credits AND a French sound tape WITHOUT Dutch subtitles.
The comments of my parents are contradictory.

Last watched: The Town of no Return
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Allard
The Ministry


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a mystery is more fun then the certain truth.

Has anybody bought season three? I'd like to know if they cut episodes before I buy it.
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Peter Motte
Little Wonder


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought season 3.
What do you exactly mean with "cut episodes"?
Do you wonder whether they left out some episodes?
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Allard
The Ministry


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No if the episodes are complete. I own the Contender Season Three DVD box. I want to switch to the Dutch release but not if some of the episodes are incomplete. If you would like to help me, take the total time of a couple of episode, so that I can compare it to my DVD box.
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Peter Motte
Little Wonder


Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see.
But how do you measure the total time?
From the beginning of the title credits till the very last of the title credits?
From the beginning of the actual story till the end of the actual story, tag scene included?
If I remember some other discussions, some editions do not have the tag scenes.
I noticed that my first Emma Peel season (last b&w season) at leasts has the tag scenes, even though the credits are in French. Smile

Last watched: The Gravediggers
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Allard
The Ministry


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well all the original material, so from ABC until the screen goes black. Any screens that say weintrabb or canal image should not be included. But you can also take the total time including those and just mention that they are included. I don't care for 20 missing second. Just if minute(s) are cut, would be a problem for me.
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Peter Motte
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll check it out as soon as I find the time to do it. That might take some time. Confused
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