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Series 4 Blu-ray UK/German release (February 2015)
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ischtar
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

denisrigg wrote:


Studiocanal has announced new release date of first German Blu-ray edition of The Avengers Season 4 - 19 February 2015.

Discs: 7

Picture: 1.33: 1 1080 / 24p Full HD

Audio: German: PCM Audio English: PCM Audio

Subtitles: English for the hearing impaired

Bonus material:

Audio Commentaries
Entries with Oliver Kalkofe and Wolfgang Bahro
Interviews,
Short film Das Diadem
Alternative open and close titles
"Armchair Theatre - The Hothouse" with Diana Rigg
Chessboard Sequence
Patrick Macnee's wedding
Colorized scenes
Reconstructions
Backstage
Picture Galleries
Trailer


Looks like the German edition has a lot of the bonus material from the Studio Canal DVDs, let's hope the picture galleries are identical to those on the British Studio Canal DVD's and not those on the German Kinowelt editions.

I'm pleased to see that there will be English subtitles, but it obviously lacks German ones (not that I really care).
The collection of the series one episodes reconstrution was already a terrific part of the German Kinowelt edtion. All reconstructions (with German subtitles) were part of the first German Gathy Gale edition, I guess it will include all series one episodes here too?

But what about the scripts pdf files ? Are they included?

I could live without the German entries (and definitely can without Gerd-GŁnther Hoffman as John Steeds/Patrick Macnee's German dubber; Holger Mahlich, who is Macnee's dubber for the Cathy Gale era is way better).

But it's definitely interesting for someone who does not own the Studio Canal DVDs so far.

I will wait for a release of Series 2 and 3 on Blu ray (hoping it will happen one day). Very Happy
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to believe for the picture galleries from the British Studio Canal DVD's, but I suspect, it will include only the material that Kinowelt involved earlier.

Hopefully soon we will learn the details about the material in bonuses as for scripts pdf files, reconstructions and other things, since it is not very clear about distribution of bonuses for this edition. Rolling Eyes

The price listed on Amazon points EUR 63,33, but definitely it was delivered for the original sheduled release, and maybe it will be revised.
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Alan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ischtar wrote:
Looks like the German edition has a lot of the bonus material from the Studio Canal DVDs, let's hope the picture galleries are identical to those on the British Studio Canal DVD's and not those on the German Kinowelt editions.


It looks to me like there will be a single master for UK/Germany. I would expect the actual discs to be the same in both countries with "English/Deutsche" choice on the first screen.

Quote:
I'm pleased to see that there will be English subtitles, but it obviously lacks German ones (not that I really care).
The collection of the series one episodes reconstrution was already a terrific part of the German Kinowelt edtion. All reconstructions (with German subtitles) were part of the first German Gathy Gale edition, I guess it will include all series one episodes here too?


I doubt that all reconstructions will be included - probably just those that were on the UK Series 4 set (so Double Danger and A Change of Bait) so that anyone wanting to upgrade their DVD set will not need to retain the DVDs for specific extras.

Quote:
But what about the scripts pdf files ? Are they included?


No idea. It might be an issue that not everyone who buys the set will have a BD-ROM drive...

Quote:
I will wait for a release of Series 2 and 3 on Blu ray (hoping it will happen one day). Very Happy


It's very unlikely that those series will be issued on Blu-ray. They are locked in standard definition, since they were made on 405-line videotape, and there would be no appreciable benefit in upscaling them from the film recordings. The DVDs will have resolved as much detail as there is in those films.
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MRotten
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
I bought the series on VHS, paid TV licence to watch it on Channel 4, BBC2 and ITV4, satellite fees to watch on Bravo, bought again on Contender's DVDs and some French sets (Series 1-3 and TNA), then again on Optimum/Canal and both UK and German sets... Can't see myself buying it all again, either.


You will, don't worry. As someone who taped the show (onto Beta cassettes) off New York TV in the late '80s, I know full well; we Avengers fans never stop. I will, however, wait and see about Blu ray. From what I've heard about the US release, it's not what it could have been. Subtitles are a big plus. The videotaped series could sure use them.
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan wrote:
ischtar wrote:

I will wait for a release of Series 2 and 3 on Blu ray (hoping it will happen one day). Very Happy


It's very unlikely that those series will be issued on Blu-ray. They are locked in standard definition, since they were made on 405-line videotape, and there would be no appreciable benefit in upscaling them from the film recordings. The DVDs will have resolved as much detail as there is in those films.


Doctor Who fans are requesting BD releases of that show despite it being made in SD for its first 29 seasons or so (in fact the 2005-2008 ones have been released "upscaled"), but as we both know Alan, Doctor Who fans are pretty loopy anyway Wink I think they/we see most of the benefit being in space-saving, and to be honest the first three (well, two-and-a-bit) seasons of the Avengers don't take up that much shelf space anyway. Except in my house and people like me, who own it four or five times in various forms!
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Alan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The is a huge gulf in mainstream popularity between Doctor Who and The Avengers today.

The Avengers is a niche show and it'll be an achievement to get Series 4-6 on Blu-ray. There is no real gain to be had with sticking Series 2-3 (+ the surviving bits of 1) on Blu-ray, and a large percentage of the potential market are savvy of that fact. So they'd be aiming at a fraction of the market available for 4-6 or The New Avengers (which is surely a much greater priority).
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John Johnson
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
Alan wrote:
ischtar wrote:

I will wait for a release of Series 2 and 3 on Blu ray (hoping it will happen one day). Very Happy


It's very unlikely that those series will be issued on Blu-ray. They are locked in standard definition, since they were made on 405-line videotape, and there would be no appreciable benefit in upscaling them from the film recordings. The DVDs will have resolved as much detail as there is in those films.


Doctor Who fans are requesting BD releases of that show despite it being made in SD for its first 29 seasons or so (in fact the 2005-2008 ones have been released "upscaled"), but as we both know Alan, Doctor Who fans are pretty loopy anyway Wink I think they/we see most of the benefit being in space-saving, and to be honest the first three (well, two-and-a-bit) seasons of the Avengers don't take up that much shelf space anyway. Except in my house and people like me, who own it four or five times in various forms!


In comparison, I think the nu-Who fans are more loopy than the original series fans. My experience of them, they don't really want to embrace the original series. Some even think there should be anniversary specials just for the new version. Now that is loopy. lol
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Alan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Johnson wrote:
In comparison, I think the nu-Who fans are more loopy than the original series fans. My experience of them, they don't really want to embrace the original series. Some even think there should be anniversary specials just for the new version. Now that is loopy. lol


Without wanting to derail this thread, I don't see any problem in celebrating, say, 10 years of new Doctor Who in 2015. To generations of mainstream audiences, that's how long it's been running. In some ways that would be more honest than celebrating 50 years of Doctor Who in 2013 when there were 14 years without any episodes produced during the 1990-2004 period...

Smile
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That does rather suppose that Doctor Who is only a television series... in the years 1990 to 2004 it had to become something more (including moving to audio, like series 1 of the Avengers has done).
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
That does rather suppose that Doctor Who is only a television series... in the years 1990 to 2004 it had to become something more (including moving to audio, like series 1 of the Avengers has done).


Almost all of which was invisible to all but the fans. Smile
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it was invisible to people who never went into a bookshop or newsagent! I'm by no means a Star Trek or Star Wars fan, but they had books in the same number of shops or fewer, and weren't necessarily seen as dead franchises (even when they were)... Oddly enough, it was finding "The Avengers Dossier" in a bookshop that rekindled my interest in our show, although sadly it was a SF bookshop rather than a "real" one...
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Beta
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan wrote:
ischtar wrote:
I will wait for a release of Series 2 and 3 on Blu ray (hoping it will happen one day). Very Happy


It's very unlikely that those series will be issued on Blu-ray. They are locked in standard definition, since they were made on 405-line videotape, and there would be no appreciable benefit in upscaling them from the film recordings. The DVDs will have resolved as much detail as there is in those films.


I also hope that the videotaped Series 2, 3 and the remnants of series 1 go to Blu-Ray.

You mentioned in the Roobarb forum a while back that you had seen an HD version of one of these episodes and noticed extra detail in the pictures. You noticing the extra detail does not surprise me.

These series are in 378 line format. But those 378 lines won't line up against PAL's 576 lines. That is, many of the 378 lines will appear in between two PAL lines. Therefore, the 378 lines won't be accurately resolved in PAL.

The only way around this is to use a resolution that is at least twice that of 378 (i.e. 756 lines). The only resolution available that fits this bill is 1080 (i.e. HD).

There are 55 episodes (rounded up) that currently exist from series 1, 2 and 3, if I have counted correctly. Putting 55 episodes onto 4 Blu-Ray discs results in around 13 to 14 episodes per disc. Compare this with Lionsgate putting 8 to 9 COLOUR episodes on one Blu-Ray disc. Therefore, I think this is doable.

Could it be the reason that you were able to see an episode in HD was because the telecine films were scanned in at 1080 line resolution in the first instance? If so, then some of the work has been done already, which would be good.

Maybe all the videotaped series could be put into some sort of grand collection edition containing all the Avengers series from Keel to King...
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The telerecordings of the 405-line originals were (and are) on film so technically they're already of a much higher resolution than 1080p but only of the original source. However, if the episodes are compressed on DVD to the point where there's loss of detail or you start to get artefacts then a BD with a less lossy/compressed transfer would help. What would help even more though would be a good remastering/restoration, done more painstakingly than the one for the DVDs, and especially if they do the VidFIRE process to approach the original video motion back. This could have bene done for DVD as well, but the same hurdle exists for both, and it is probably insurmountable: budget restrictions.
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Alan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beta wrote:
You mentioned in the Roobarb forum a while back that you had seen an HD version of one of these episodes and noticed extra detail in the pictures. You noticing the extra detail does not surprise me.


In retrospect, I think the extra detail may not have been that as such, more film noise giving the impression of added detail.

Quote:
There are 55 episodes (rounded up) that currently exist from series 1, 2 and 3, if I have counted correctly. Putting 55 episodes onto 4 Blu-Ray discs results in around 13 to 14 episodes per disc. Compare this with Lionsgate putting 8 to 9 COLOUR episodes on one Blu-Ray disc. Therefore, I think this is doable.


There's minimal difference in compressing colour or black and white images, so the idea of upscaling to 1080 and then sticking 55 episodes on 4 discs is a recipe for disaster.

That would only be a possibility IMO if they didn't upscale and left them in SD on the discs (which would benefit from the improved Blu-ray codecs and compression but differences in quality would be minimal).

Quote:
Could it be the reason that you were able to see an episode in HD was because the telecine films were scanned in at 1080 line resolution in the first instance? If so, then some of the work has been done already, which would be good.


I never said I saw an episode in HD. What I saw were the original HD tests, containing a couple of scenes, on Blu-ray. I have no idea whether the 2009/10 DVD versions were originally scanned in HD (the tests pre-dated the DVD releases by several years).
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Beta
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan wrote:
There's minimal difference in compressing colour or black and white images, so the idea of upscaling to 1080 and then sticking 55 episodes on 4 discs is a recipe for disaster.

That would only be a possibility IMO if they didn't upscale and left them in SD on the discs (which would benefit from the improved Blu-ray codecs and compression but differences in quality would be minimal).


If the 576 line source were literally upscaled to 1080, then might as well stick to the current DVD encoding.

If the telecine film were scanned by a 1K scanner or higher, then I would be for having it on Blu-Ray.

If you were talking about the removal of colour from a DVD encoding, then I would agree that there would be minimal difference. I say this because the encoding used on DVDs cannot have colour data removed from it. It's enforced as part of the standard. (I think that is part of the reason why there's a green hue in one of the DVDs of the VT episodes that was published).

However, the encoding that is used in a large proportion of Blu-Rays allows colour data to be absent, thereby making some data saving. I agree that doing this does not perform miracles with regards to decreasing the amount of data used, but there would be a noticeable saving.

The reason why I stated 4 discs is because using less discs means less that licencing money needs to be paid to Sony (i.e. make a saving), less manufacturing required, less menus to do, etc... I definitely would not object if the VT episodes were spread over 5 discs in HD! But I think the only way to find out if having it over 4 discs is a good idea or not is to actually do an HD encode for fitting them over 4 discs and compare the picture quality with it being spread across 5 discs. No need to create actual discs to do this.

Alan wrote:
I never said I saw an episode in HD. What I saw were the original HD tests, containing a couple of scenes, on Blu-ray. I have no idea whether the 2009/10 DVD versions were originally scanned in HD (the tests pre-dated the DVD releases by several years).


Ah, sorry. I should have fully realised that. I think it was awhile back when it was fleetingly in my mind that this was most likely to be the case.

It would be interesting to know what the file sizes were of the scenes that you saw and what video standard was used (e.g. 50 fields per second, interlaced, 1440x1080, which is an unusual resolution, etc...)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beta wrote:
If the 576 line source were literally upscaled to 1080, then might as well stick to the current DVD encoding.


Sorry. Lazy use of the word "upscaled" on my part, when I actually meant "scanned" (i.e. an HD transfer of the film).

Quote:
If the telecine film were scanned by a 1K scanner or higher, then I would be for having it on Blu-Ray.


I think StudioCanal would have a hard job in convincing people that there would be an improvement over the DVDs worth forking out for all over again (and I say that as someone who routinely upgrades to Blu whenever there's an opportunity.

Quote:
If you were talking about the removal of colour from a DVD encoding, then I would agree that there would be minimal difference. I say this because the encoding used on DVDs cannot have colour data removed from it. It's enforced as part of the standard. (I think that is part of the reason why there's a green hue in one of the DVDs of the VT episodes that was published).

However, the encoding that is used in a large proportion of Blu-Rays allows colour data to be absent, thereby making some data saving. I agree that doing this does not perform miracles with regards to decreasing the amount of data used, but there would be a noticeable saving.


Thanks for the explanation. I know very little about Blu-ray authoring (though I author my own DVDs regularly) and wasn't aware of the facility to encode Blu-rays without a colour signal (and its resulting lower filesize).

Quote:
The reason why I stated 4 discs is because using less discs means less that licencing money needs to be paid to Sony (i.e. make a saving), less manufacturing required, less menus to do, etc... I definitely would not object if the VT episodes were spread over 5 discs in HD! But I think the only way to find out if having it over 4 discs is a good idea or not is to actually do an HD encode for fitting them over 4 discs and compare the picture quality with it being spread across 5 discs. No need to create actual discs to do this.


I doubt that the licence fee to Sony would be a significant factor in the number of discs used. Besides anything else, if they stuck 55 episodes on 4 or 5 discs, they could actually be creating a situation where they are making their film-era editions look bloated in terms of discs used and price asked. There would be reasons (arguably) but the consumer would likely just see the disc totals and think they'd been ripped off for Series 4, 5 and 6 (or decide to pick up the Series 1-3 BD and wait until 4-6 were markedly cheaper).

Besides, a "cheap" version on a handful of discs would also not necessarily recoup restoration costs.

Quote:
It would be interesting to know what the file sizes were of the scenes that you saw and what video standard was used (e.g. 50 fields per second, interlaced, 1440x1080, which is an unusual resolution, etc...)


That I can't tell you as I only had the disc for a few days and wasn't able to make a copy.

Actually... thinking back, the first lot of restorations I saw was for DVD, and was a few years before the actual restorations were made. When I saw the Blu-ray demo it was shortly before the 2009 restorations were made. (Sorry - memory's shot!)
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beta wrote:

If the 576 line source were literally upscaled to 1080, then might as well stick to the current DVD encoding.

If the telecine film were scanned by a 1K scanner or higher, then I would be for having it on Blu-Ray.
But it's only going to be 405-line in either case (that's the resolution of the telecine'd source) and would look exactly the same. The only visual advantage of BD might be removing some compression artefacts, if any currently appear.
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jaz
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zzz

Last edited by jaz on Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:38 am; edited 2 times in total
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starboy9091
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaz wrote:
Test discs are being watched!





That's exciting!!!

Brad
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timlamb
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to hear how it looks or some preliminary reviews.
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