The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index The Avengers International Fan Forum

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Anticlockwise feedback
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> Avengers Books and Merchandise
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My hat off to Sam Denham for contacting Jeremy Burnham. False Witness was an amazing chapter. How did you find him? Now that's true research.

I have been most impressed with how many writers have such in depth knowledge of the production end of the show. Amazing how something can still be learned from nearly 50 years ago.
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
How to Succeed... at Posting!


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 975

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone obviously worked very hard and contributed in different and unique ways. I disagree with much of the analysis, but everyone makes strong and well-worded arguments. The Tara era is certainly the most divisive of the seasons, and that in itself makes for interesting interpretation - though I would not be surprised if it's less interesting to the world at large.

There is very little serious analysis of any era of The Avengers (including the Emma Peel seasons) available, either online or in print - and almost no scholarly investigation. The Emma Peel seasons tend to be the domain of adolescent fantasy, which often becomes a bit degrading to the source material - Rodney, I disagree that everyone knows the "apeel" of that period. It's nice to see some attempt to rectify that.
_________________
"It's a conflict of science and humanity! Equations, isotherms...I have a dynamic too."

Avengers Episode Reviews: The Undertakers


Last edited by Lhbizness on Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:30 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4019
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
I agree. I think that by marrying beautifully written chapters with an in-depth analysis that these episodes have never had before, you get a wonderful product. There's no doubt that Anticlockwise is the best of the three volumes to date. Writers now feel more confident and both the Tara era and The New Avengers feel more like breaking into unexplored territory. After all, everyone know the 'apeel' of the previous seasons.
Yes, it's about time those eras got the attention and scrutiny they deserve. The New Avengers volume should be an engrossing read - most of the discussion of it on internet sites, even after the recent repeats, has been fairly superficial or concerned with production minutiae, and I'd like to know what viewers regard as its strengths and weaknesses, in a bit more depth.
_________________
Last watched: The Man in the Mirror.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lhbizness wrote:
Rodney, I disagree that everyone knows the "apeel" of that period. It's nice to see some attempt to rectify that.


I guess I was referring to us, rather than the public at large.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The series in general has lacked interesting critical scrutiny, hence the idea behind these five volumes.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
How to Succeed... at Posting!


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 975

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a great deal still to be said about the series, in all its incarnations - both on this board and across cinema studies. Arguably the two most culturally "important" eras belong to Cathy and Emma, the first for female representation on television and the second for broad influence (at least in terms of longevity in Western culture). What's lacking is serious analysis, which you've done a great job of adding to.

Personally, I don't think enough has been said anywhere about Cathy Gale or Honor Blackman, the early development of The Avengers, and the development of John Steed as a character. Tara is the end of the series, whether you want to think of that season as the nadir or the pinnacle or somewhere in between; but so little has been touched about Cathy Gale. There's been more written about Keel than about her.
_________________
"It's a conflict of science and humanity! Equations, isotherms...I have a dynamic too."

Avengers Episode Reviews: The Undertakers


Last edited by Lhbizness on Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Speed Six
Little Wonder


Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 195
Location: The Open Road

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
My hat off to Sam Denham for contacting Jeremy Burnham. False Witness was an amazing chapter. How did you find him? Now that's true research.


That's very kind Margo - my last three contributions to the collections have been done in rather a rush, and I can't help feeling they could all have been better. I was also seriously considering writing the False Witness piece entirely in verse 'a la Belloc', but that proved a little too much of a challenge ! If you don't know Belloc, he's a wonderful writer who created an astonishing and subtly influential body of work, and I would recommend his output to any student of English culture. The False Witness piece did turn out to be slightly stronger than anticipated though as I found the episode to have more bite to it than I'd initially realised.

Regarding Jeremy Burnham - I knew he'd attended the Avengers 50th event, so thought it might not be too difficult to trace him, and fairly quickly discovered he still had an agent who was able to put me in touch. I did try to interest Jeremy in writing something for the volume himself, but he didn't seem particularly excited by the idea. He was very happy to answer a set of questions I sent him however.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed Six wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
My hat off to Sam Denham for contacting Jeremy Burnham. False Witness was an amazing chapter. How did you find him? Now that's true research.


That's very kind Margo - my last three contributions to the collections have been done in rather a rush, and I can't help feeling they could all have been better. I was also seriously considering writing the False Witness piece entirely in verse 'a la Belloc', but that proved a little too much of a challenge ! If you don't know Belloc, he's a wonderful writer who created an astonishing and subtly influential body of work, and I would recommend his output to any student of English culture. The False Witness piece did turn out to be slightly stronger than anticipated though as I found the episode to have more bite to it than I'd initially realised.

Regarding Jeremy Burnham - I knew he'd attended the Avengers 50th event, so thought it might not be too difficult to trace him, and fairly quickly discovered he still had an agent who was able to put me in touch. I did try to interest Jeremy in writing something for the volume himself, but he didn't seem particularly excited by the idea. He was very happy to answer a set of questions I sent him however.
Well then I am even more impressed Sam, that you did it rushed. It looks rather polished although you alluded to being on a deadline in your poem so that was a hint. Wink

It looks like Jeremy morphed into a screenwriter. Truly astonishing and out of character I might add for Clemens to hand over writing to anyone let alone an actor.

I am not sure if you sent him a copy of your chapter. I think he would be quite pleased. Did he intend to convey such issues as societal or moral decay as you so nicely phrased it? Seems like that theme was touched on by a few contributors.

That would have been quite interesting to have in verse and must check out Belloc. Well done Sam. Cool
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having received my hardback copies, I have to say that I'm not impressed. Lulu have thinned the paper from 89 gsm to 74 gsm since the last volume and it obviously feels less substantial between the fingers; the pages are almost see-through. The Lulu paperback edition is far, far better, with thicker paper and - ironically - a more substantial feel. It is a far better purchase for anyone looking to buy the book.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
Having received my hardback copies, I have to say that I'm not impressed. Lulu have thinned the paper from 89 gsm to 74 gsm since the last volume and it obviously feels less substantial between the fingers; the pages are almost see-through. The Lulu paperback edition is far, far better, with thicker paper and - ironically - a more substantial feel. It is a far better purchase for anyone looking to buy the book.
Is there a hardback book available that is of higher quality?
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really, Margo. To get the thicker sheets you now have to purchase a 'structure' which doubles the price.
The binding etc. is fine, it is simply the paper thickness which Lulu have cut back on. However, their deluxe paperback has thick covers and thicker paper. It is an excellent product, and a nice halfway house between the Amazon edition and the hardback.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frank wrote:
I'm going to give some feedback-although I am cheating a bit since I helped do some proofreading on the book Razz

As before you have a mix of writing styles and approaches. I think what is most appealing is the notable number of articles that made a serious attempt to be objective in their assessments. That is admirable since most of the contributors are advocates of the era.

It's always cool and a little surprising what people have to express in their episodes. Many of the King episodes that I enjoy I felt nothing meaningful to comment on. It is nice to see them through other people's eyes
Well I really enjoyed your chapters Frank. You always have some interesting twist and such insight into the episodes. The 7 deadly sins chapter was brilliant. But actually the 2 Fellers chapter was equally brilliant. I loved the part where you said it was justifiable homicide given their jobs were taken from them. Such a spot on portrayal of their twisted minds. The Morning After also had great insight into Steed's character. Before I ever saw the Gale episodes he was just all hero to me. And then his character seemed to have abruptly changed in season 4. You nicely tied them together.
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the idea of Merlin representing Steed's dark mirror is a highlight of the book.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
How to Succeed... at Posting!


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 975

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steed is all hero - he's just not a perfect (and uninteresting) one.

I have to say that I do not agree with the vast majority of the analyses (far too positive for me), but they all provide interesting perspectives.
_________________
"It's a conflict of science and humanity! Equations, isotherms...I have a dynamic too."

Avengers Episode Reviews: The Undertakers


Last edited by Lhbizness on Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

made perfect by his imperfections
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I received a few e-mails asking why Anticlockwise is a dollar more expensive than the first two volumes. This is because it is nearly 500 pages which puts the cost up.
I have withdrawn the Lulu hardback from the market as I was disappointed with the paper quality. It's available from them as a deluxe paperback now instead.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alan
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 2940
Location: The Edge of Avengerland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as I was getting round to buying it!

While I can understand your dissatisfaction with the paper quality, it's a shame that people like me who have started the collection in hardcover can't now complete it in that format. Sad
_________________
Alan
--
The Avengers Declassified

Hidden Tiger Books - now available: Avengerworld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4019
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad that Amazon don't do a hardback.

I should've bought two copies then I could've sold you one, Alan!

Personally I find the paper acceptable, I've certainly had much lower quality hardbacks including one I received as a Christmas gift. Rodney has higher standards then me though. Smile
_________________
Last watched: The Man in the Mirror.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan wrote:
Just as I was getting round to buying it!

While I can understand your dissatisfaction with the paper quality, it's a shame that people like me who have started the collection in hardcover can't now complete it in that format. Sad

I can put it back on if anyone is interested. I just felt that the standard wasn't as good as previous volumes. It is easy enough to 'unretire' the edition.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alan
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 2940
Location: The Edge of Avengerland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth mentioning that it can be a 'luck of the draw' situation with Lulu, depending on where they choose to print. The hardcovers printed in the USA are generally much better than those printed in France. The UK hub is good, too, but lately much of Lulu's local hardcover printing for UK customers has been sent to the French print hub.

I'd suggest that if you're unhappy with the print quality, complain about your order. Lulu are normally very responsive, Rodney.
_________________
Alan
--
The Avengers Declassified

Hidden Tiger Books - now available: Avengerworld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> Avengers Books and Merchandise All times are GMT - 9 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 4 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com

Free Web Hosting | File Hosting | Photo Gallery | Matrimonial


Powered by PhpBB.BizHat.com, setup your forum now!
For Support, visit Forums.BizHat.com