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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
Lhbizness wrote:
Which it is. We fully agree on that. I really wasn't trying to start an argument: just that I find the Peel era interesting.


It is one of my biggest regrets that we didn't have you on board for Season 4's volume. I would love you to have written a chapter on one of my father's monochrome episodes.
Well when we're all done, just start all over again. Laughing
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the writing was better, but the thing I think made it a bit harder to get through, or even get lost in were there were multiple double chapters. Not sure everyone that buys the book would take the time to read both and added to the page/cost I would imagine. Otherwise a very memorable book.
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mousemeat
A Touch of Brimstone


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
I think the writing was better, but the thing I think made it a bit harder to get through, or even get lost in were there were multiple double chapters. Not sure everyone that buys the book would take the time to read both and added to the page/cost I would imagine. Otherwise a very memorable book.


you would be amazed how rabid fans would literally read and devour every written word..
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mousemeat wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
I think the writing was better, but the thing I think made it a bit harder to get through, or even get lost in were there were multiple double chapters. Not sure everyone that buys the book would take the time to read both and added to the page/cost I would imagine. Otherwise a very memorable book.


you would be amazed how rabid fans would literally read and devour every written word..
Really? Question Are you a rabid fan? Laughing What did you like about the repeats?
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
I think the Avengers women are always used/abused by the writers, and by Steed. This is not solely a fault of Season 6.
Yes even perverted buildings abuse them! Just terrible. Wink
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
I found Anti-Clockwise somewhat hard to get through. I agree with Rodney that the quality of the writing has gotten better with each book but the problem for me concerning Anti-Clockwise was the subject matter. The Tara era has in my opinion only a handful of memorable episodes, such as All Done With Mirrors, They Keep Killing Steed, Take-Over, and The Morning After- the rest are pretty forgetable and consequently not that interesting to read about. My favorite chapter is Frank Hui's on The Morning After. Really brilliant analysis of the relationship between Steed and the character Merlin.
I am laughing as I wonder why you did not take one of your faves.You seem to like the more serious ones. Are you writing for TNA as well? Hope so.

BTW loved your chapters. As Rodney said it is the easiest reading of them all. I still don't understand my own chapters. Wink Although one can say its speculative, I would say you have a really good read on that Mrs. Peel. I was thinking she is very much like the character Diana Rigg that played her. Wonderful and witty but a bit distant and independent. Although I can't blame her. She has had some real weirdos to deal with in her career. it was bad enough on the show, but real life perverts are another story. I love her line that we can admire her, but just from afar! As far away as possible!
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Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
I think the writing was better, but the thing I think made it a bit harder to get through, or even get lost in were there were multiple double chapters. Not sure everyone that buys the book would take the time to read both and added to the page/cost I would imagine. Otherwise a very memorable book.


The double chapters often come about because a writer pulls out and a couple of other contributors offer to fill in. Personally, I like two takes on the odd episode. Take Forget-Me-Knot in volume 2, where I like it and Sunday can't stand it. Out of 33 episodes, only three doubled up, so I'm not sure I'd call that "multiple". Bernard's chapter was only 600 words so it needed a second taker. And you and Matthew were late replacements for a withdrawing contributor.
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Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the two viewpoints on one episode where there are different approaches. It's not always as clear-cut as the pro- and anti- views on some stories in the "About Time" Doctor Who critical analysis volumes; and not as often-consensual as the brief reviews in the Doctor Who Handbook(s). Avengers writers - writers on the subject of The Avengers, I mean - are really individualistic, which makes for an entertaining and comprehensive overview of an era. A rewarding read!
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Dan
Little Wonder


Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
Dan wrote:
I found Anti-Clockwise somewhat hard to get through. I agree with Rodney that the quality of the writing has gotten better with each book but the problem for me concerning Anti-Clockwise was the subject matter. The Tara era has in my opinion only a handful of memorable episodes, such as All Done With Mirrors, They Keep Killing Steed, Take-Over, and The Morning After- the rest are pretty forgetable and consequently not that interesting to read about. My favorite chapter is Frank Hui's on The Morning After. Really brilliant analysis of the relationship between Steed and the character Merlin.
I am laughing as I wonder why you did not take one of your faves.You seem to like the more serious ones. Are you writing for TNA as well? Hope so.

BTW loved your chapters. As Rodney said it is the easiest reading of them all. I still don't understand my own chapters. Wink Although one can say its speculative, I would say you have a really good read on that Mrs. Peel. I was thinking she is very much like the character Diana Rigg that played her. Wonderful and witty but a bit distant and independent. Although I can't blame her. She has had some real weirdos to deal with in her career. it was bad enough on the show, but real life perverts are another story. I love her line that we can admire her, but just from afar! As far away as possible!


Thanks for the kind words Anti. I am doing a chapter on The Last of the Cybernauts for the TNA book.

The fact that Diana Rigg has always kept Avenger fans at a distance (although being very frustrating for us) sort of confirms for me the similarity between the actress and the character.
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
Dan wrote:
I found Anti-Clockwise somewhat hard to get through. I agree with Rodney that the quality of the writing has gotten better with each book but the problem for me concerning Anti-Clockwise was the subject matter. The Tara era has in my opinion only a handful of memorable episodes, such as All Done With Mirrors, They Keep Killing Steed, Take-Over, and The Morning After- the rest are pretty forgetable and consequently not that interesting to read about. My favorite chapter is Frank Hui's on The Morning After. Really brilliant analysis of the relationship between Steed and the character Merlin.
I am laughing as I wonder why you did not take one of your faves.You seem to like the more serious ones. Are you writing for TNA as well? Hope so.

BTW loved your chapters. As Rodney said it is the easiest reading of them all. I still don't understand my own chapters. Wink Although one can say its speculative, I would say you have a really good read on that Mrs. Peel. I was thinking she is very much like the character Diana Rigg that played her. Wonderful and witty but a bit distant and independent. Although I can't blame her. She has had some real weirdos to deal with in her career. it was bad enough on the show, but real life perverts are another story. I love her line that we can admire her, but just from afar! As far away as possible!


Thanks for the kind words Anti. I am doing a chapter on The Last of the Cybernauts for the TNA book.

The fact that Diana Rigg has always kept Avenger fans at a distance (although being very frustrating for us) sort of confirms for me the similarity between the actress and the character.
Oh that is just so perfect that you are continuing with the cybernaut theme. I can't wait to hear your take on it! Glad I am not alone on that--Emma being like Diana. Never thought about it much but with your excellent analysis it just made me think about it. I was really struck with that interview she did talking about being literally stalked by fans and then her understandable reaction to want to avoid them. And feel ambivalent towards her audience. Can't recall if you got into this aspect, but I have thought she left the show perhaps in part out of feeling stalked on the show and apparently in real life. Not to mention all the Hitchcock blonde themes that James has brought up about Emma. As much as she did a brilliant job of acting cool, I bet it some of those scenes were quite unpleasant. It's interesting she never really said why she left, other than going onto theatre. Perhaps a reason, perhaps an excuse? What do you think?
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am curious. When Clemens was fired from the first Tara episodes, was that execs at ABC? Were they British or American? Really dumb move. I guess we will never know or understand what lead to that. But after reading the book, it seems like losing the American ratings war was not the central issue, but a result of a struggling production.
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frank
Little Wonder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is very little available data about ratings from back then. I did a lot of searching on the web.

I can tell you the Emma Peel episodes never averaged in the top 25 shows in terms of ratings.

I always wondered how much the production company was prepared to produce a full American season of episodes-even with the return of Clemens and Fennell. 22-26 episodes per year is normal over here. American studios would have been conditioned and equipped to crank out that many season after season.

I know Rigg was pretty vocal about the strain of the shooting schedule and Thorson said they often filmed multiple scripts at the same time
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually why where there 33 episodes for Tara? That was over the top. Anyone know how that came to be?
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frank
Little Wonder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually from the US perspective, The Tara era covered a 1 1/2 seasons. In the states the first 7 epsiodes aired with the last 8 Peel epsiodes.

the remaining 26 aired in the fall
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cyberrich
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
Actually why where there 33 episodes for Tara? That was over the top. Anyone know how that came to be?


They made the usual 26 episodes, and by then Clemens and the rest of the team knew this was to be the very last season. Clemens did say in an interview that there was enough money left in the pot for a further 7 episodes, so everyone decided to make them. So glad they did! Smile Rich.
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anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberrich wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
Actually why where there 33 episodes for Tara? That was over the top. Anyone know how that came to be?


They made the usual 26 episodes, and by then Clemens and the rest of the team knew this was to be the very last season. Clemens did say in an interview that there was enough money left in the pot for a further 7 episodes, so everyone decided to make them. So glad they did! Smile Rich.
thank you Rich and Frank. Seems like an unusual arrangement. I did not realize but the emma era was just a half year longer.
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Rodders
The Big Thinker


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I received a nice review today from reader Phil Capp:

Just a note to say I have now completed this book and, as with its predecessors, enjoyed it thoroughly. Although like many I was not overkeen on the direction the series took post-Peel, this volume I found in some ways the most interesting due to the sheer variety of opinions and insight. Some terrific pieces in there, and well done to all. It's great that the series still generates this level of interest after 50 years.
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mousemeat
A Touch of Brimstone


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberrich wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
Actually why where there 33 episodes for Tara? That was over the top. Anyone know how that came to be?


They made the usual 26 episodes, and by then Clemens and the rest of the team knew this was to be the very last season. Clemens did say in an interview that there was enough money left in the pot for a further 7 episodes, so everyone decided to make them. So glad they did! Smile Rich.


same here...glad...the final season on U.S. sadly, up against the number one show in the U.S ' Laugh-In' on NBC....but the whole season seemed
chaotic...tara had a tough act to follow in mrs.peel
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Rodders
The Big Thinker


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of ratings, finance etc., the show had run its natural course. The three filmed seasons offer us very different styles and spectacles: Op Art/film noir; pop art; psychedelic action adventure. If The Avengers had gone on, it would have overstayed its welcome. As Roy Ward Baker once said, it was of its time and it had had its time.
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Lhbizness
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it's easy to say that things had run their course - I wonder if The Avengers would have gone on had the final season had not been subjected to the production upheaval and cast unhappiness, particularly of its leading man, and had been more directed in writing and tone. It seems to me that the blame lies not in historical inevitability but a coming together of some disastrous elements, some of which were out of the show's immediate control and some which were not. The Avengers ended when it ended, but it did not *have* to end, any more than it did when Ian Hendry jumped ship.
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