The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index The Avengers International Fan Forum

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

40th Anniversary of The New Avengers - Memories

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> The Avengers on Television
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Darren
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1705
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:32 am    Post subject: 40th Anniversary of The New Avengers - Memories Reply with quote

I saw this mentioned on Twitter earlier.

It got me thinking...

What was your first reaction to seeing the show?

I bought the video containing The Eagles Nest and The Last of the Cybernauts..? in the early 90's.

I'd been reading about the show in Dave Rogers' Complete Avengers book for a few years - I must have been around 16 when I finally saw the show.

My initial reaction was negative to the theme tune. Rogers' book said that it was an updating of the Johnson theme - he mean just the opening fanfare but I assumed the whole thing. I was very disappointed by the new theme. And Johnson's music I generally found off-putting.

The 70's aesthetic wasn't something I enjoyed back then so that was quite a block to enjoying these two episodes. the show just wasn't gripping me.

Then BBC2 started to repeat the show in 1996 starting with Complex - they used Joanna Lumley jumping in the car wash from Emily to publicise it, using her Absolutely Fabulous link (I recall Fenella Fielding voiced the trailer..).

I soon got to like the series and get used to it's different qualities. Yet the longer the episodes ran on, I started to lose interest and didn't bother with a few episodes (I lost to the will by the French two parter).

But once I got the dvd boxset I was able to reappraise it further and discover episodes I'd previously ignored like Dirtier by the Dozen.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1682

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post Darren. I initially did not like TNA at first. I was in love with TA and the eccentrics, the fashions and the quirkiness of it all. The villains were truly diabolical in TA. I did not adjust well to TNA and quickly lost interest.

But recently from joining this site, I became greatly interested from Timeless and her enthusiasm for the series. It was infectious. I was intrigued by the episodes which she had great insights on. Some don't like Complex but I actually thought it was a rather clever episode and looking back at it, seeing the fear of computers and artificial intelligence in the episode is sort of fascinating.
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The New Avengers has suffered from comparisons with the original. And from it being a 70s creation. While the second series or season is not as good, I think there are some outstanding episodes. As Timeless notes, the characters are more three dimensional and like Alan I think that the initial season is far better overall than many of the original ones. You have to accept that it is New as well as Avengers, but it deserves its place within the overall canon.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
How to Succeed... at Posting!


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 975

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Eagle's Nest definitely sold it for me. It struck a nice balance between a very 70s plot, callbacks to the original series, and a development of the series into a new era with a new aesthetic. Episodes go up and down, though - some are dreadful beyond anything the original series did, and some are brilliant. It's a very spotty show, but when it hits, it hits well. I don't think it compares favorably or unfavorably to the original series, though. It's just different.

I'm confused as to how the characters in TNA are more three-dimensional. Gambit gets less backstory than Steed, Emma Peel, Cathy Gale, or Tara King. Purdey isn't as fully developed as any of them. Both are fairly static characters and their relationship to each other (and, to a degree, to Steed) is also static. Yes, the world TNA is set in is more "realistic" than at least the second half of The Avengers, but there's a curious lack of interaction with the real world all the same. The character who develops the most depth is Steed - though he had plenty of depth to begin with - and a good bit of that is because we've followed him over the course of six previous seasons and seen where he's come from. If anything, I think TNA actually does a poor job of giving dimensionality to its new characters.
_________________
"It's a conflict of science and humanity! Equations, isotherms...I have a dynamic too."

Avengers Episode Reviews: The Undertakers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far more screen time is given over to their private interactions and both Faces and Obsession highlight the interest in bringing their emotional rapport into play.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was the recycled scripts that let the show down, rather than the characterisation which I think worked very well.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the use of more than sixty guest actors who had appeared in the original show was a nice way to connect with the past. As are the references to Gale, Peel and King which appear in numerous episodes.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
How to Succeed... at Posting!


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 975

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
Far more screen time is given over to their private interactions and both Faces and Obsession highlight the interest in bringing their emotional rapport into play.


I disagree that the emotional rapport wasn't already there with the earlier series, though. Faces is a rehash of Man with Two Shadows, which has a similar exchange and questions of loyalty between the partners. Obsession gives us insight into Purdey's life experience that is never again referenced throughout the rest of the show. Gambit never gets any kind of emotional development.

I don't think that TNA did a BETTER job of giving its characters dimensionality; rather, it seemed to only make the attempt in individual episodes and provided little through-line on the relationships - with the exception of Purdey's evident attraction to Steed, which does go through something of an arc. Steed, meanwhile, has become increasingly distanced from his partners and allows much less access to his emotional experience than he ever did before.
_________________
"It's a conflict of science and humanity! Equations, isotherms...I have a dynamic too."

Avengers Episode Reviews: The Undertakers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Darren
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1705
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Patrick takes a long time to rediscover Steed. I think it was Sydney Newman who originally said to him in 1960, "Pat, I think you're great but you don't appear to be doing anything" and that's how I feel with Steed. He's solid but it takes quite a while for Steed to really feel authentically there rather than Macnee acting in the show like he would when guesting in other shows. He's rather lost in season 1. He's better written by season 2 but then the plots aren't as strong and the series isn't as stylish.

There's a greater emotional depth and bond - certainly one more on the surface than previously and more often.

Something that I feel the show wallows in far too often is a nostalgia for the past. It's like they don't enjoy the present so have to keep harking back to old spies, and old traitors and old friends etc. There's little confidence in what they could look forward to.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
How to Succeed... at Posting!


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 975

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, Patrick was really bullied by the showrunners.
_________________
"It's a conflict of science and humanity! Equations, isotherms...I have a dynamic too."

Avengers Episode Reviews: The Undertakers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mona
Winged Avenger


Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 553
Location: Mesa, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
I think Patrick takes a long time to rediscover Steed. I think it was Sydney Newman who originally said to him in 1960, "Pat, I think you're great but you don't appear to be doing anything" and that's how I feel with Steed. He's solid but it takes quite a while for Steed to really feel authentically there rather than Macnee acting in the show like he would when guesting in other shows. He's rather lost in season 1. He's better written by season 2 but then the plots aren't as strong and the series isn't as stylish.

There's a greater emotional depth and bond - certainly one more on the surface than previously and more often.

Something that I feel the show wallows in far too often is a nostalgia for the past. It's like they don't enjoy the present so have to keep harking back to old spies, and old traitors and old friends etc. There's little confidence in what they could look forward to.


Wow, I am really going to strongly disagree with your comment, Darren, that season 2 scripts were not strong or stylish, at least, for raving Steed fans like myself. Both seasons had wonderful episodes and a couple of inferior ones. I absolutely adore season 2's "Dead Men Are Dangerous" (brilliant!; "Angels of Death" (excellent); Medium Rare (funny and interesting); Obsession (great Purdey back story and interactions with Steed; also, worst last two lines of any episode); Trap (ridiculous, insulting, and totally enjoyable); K is for Kill 1/2 (great TV); Emily (rolling good fun!); Forward Base (outstanding Steed episode--Butterfingers!).

Pat was fat in Season 1 and he admitted he put little effort into the character or the show. However, as he said, during the season break he ate salads and walked every evening and came back season 2 looking luscious! Oo-la-la! And, the episodes did delve into him and focus on him more, which always works for me. Purdey was played out more, too, and it was nice that it was vague whether or not she and Steed were anything more than dear friends, especially after Medium Rare, when he clearly infers he loves her, and in Angels of Death when she clearly infers she loves him. But, platonic friends can love each other, even though Purdey, in their car ride back to his house, certainly wanted to stay after the drinks and have sex pretty clearly inferred in "Dead Men Are Dangerous". What would have happened if Steed's home hadn't been burglared--we don't know. But, she is hanging out with him with the horses at the end of Medium Rare and Gambit is definitely an outsider at that moment.

Weaknesses of TNA as a whole include:
1. Purdey in danger all the time
2. Steed being accused of treason/traitor all the time
3. Everyone and their uncle knowing where Steed lived and apparently he had no alarm system.
4. Old friends dying right and left

But, the vast majority of episodes are very enjoyable for at least a Steed (and many other Avenger fans).
_________________
Fan of John Steed
Agent, Esquire, Hunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
How to Succeed... at Posting!


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 975

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm inclined to agree with Mona on this one. Steed's marvelous in Season 2.
_________________
"It's a conflict of science and humanity! Equations, isotherms...I have a dynamic too."

Avengers Episode Reviews: The Undertakers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Darren
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1705
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say that I didn't like Steed in The New Avengers; the character and Macnee took time to rediscover their uniqueness - he regains his joie de vie in season 2.

And there are some very good scripts - I even enjoy Trap for all it's faults but after the success of season one, there is no doubting that the lack of money and stylish directors makes the show look tired far too soon. The French director and Canadian ones make the show look so generic. It's a shame they didn't get some great french stylist director to make K is for Kill a really visually exciting two parter. The set design isn't as strong - they keep using rooms in the mansion house at Pinewood Studios to cut costs. It all looks very drab.

But even in the worst episodes of it the relationship between the leads the carries the episode. K is for Kill is deeply tedious much of the time but has some really great scenes between Steed, Purdey and Gambit.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sam
Have Fingers... Will Type!


Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Gilbert, AZ

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mona wrote:

Wow, I am really going to strongly disagree with your comment, Darren, that season 2 scripts were not strong or stylish, at least, for raving Steed fans like myself. Both seasons had wonderful episodes and a couple of inferior ones. I absolutely adore season 2's "Dead Men Are Dangerous" (brilliant!; "Angels of Death" (excellent); Medium Rare (funny and interesting); Obsession (great Purdey back story and interactions with Steed; also, worst last two lines of any episode); Trap (ridiculous, insulting, and totally enjoyable); K is for Kill 1/2 (great TV); Emily (rolling good fun!); Forward Base (outstanding Steed episode--Butterfingers!).

Pat was fat in Season 1 and he admitted he put little effort into the character or the show. However, as he said, during the season break he ate salads and walked every evening and came back season 2 looking luscious! Oo-la-la! And, the episodes did delve into him and focus on him more, which always works for me. Purdey was played out more, too, and it was nice that it was vague whether or not she and Steed were anything more than dear friends, especially after Medium Rare, when he clearly infers he loves her, and in Angels of Death when she clearly infers she loves him. But, platonic friends can love each other, even though Purdey, in their car ride back to his house, certainly wanted to stay after the drinks and have sex pretty clearly inferred in "Dead Men Are Dangerous". What would have happened if Steed's home hadn't been burglared--we don't know. But, she is hanging out with him with the horses at the end of Medium Rare and Gambit is definitely an outsider at that moment.

Weaknesses of TNA as a whole include:
1. Purdey in danger all the time
2. Steed being accused of treason/traitor all the time
3. Everyone and their uncle knowing where Steed lived and apparently he had no alarm system.
4. Old friends dying right and left

But, the vast majority of episodes are very enjoyable for at least a Steed (and many other Avenger fans).


I can agree with all those points. On #3, it wasn't just TNA though. In the entire run of the original series, Steed's address seemed to the worst-kept secret in the entire country!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mona
Winged Avenger


Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 553
Location: Mesa, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Sam"]
Mona wrote:


I can agree with all those points. On #3, it wasn't just TNA though. In the entire run of the original series, Steed's address seemed to the worst-kept secret in the entire country!


So true, so true!

It's like on the roof there was a huge neon "STEED HERE" arrow pointing down to Steed's various abodes. Very Happy
_________________
Fan of John Steed
Agent, Esquire, Hunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mona
Winged Avenger


Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 553
Location: Mesa, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
I didn't say that I didn't like Steed in The New Avengers; the character and Macnee took time to rediscover their uniqueness - he regains his joie de vie in season 2.

And there are some very good scripts - I even enjoy Trap for all it's faults but after the success of season one, there is no doubting that the lack of money and stylish directors makes the show look tired far too soon. The French director and Canadian ones make the show look so generic. It's a shame they didn't get some great french stylist director to make K is for Kill a really visually exciting two parter. The set design isn't as strong - they keep using rooms in the mansion house at Pinewood Studios to cut costs. It all looks very drab.

But even in the worst episodes of it the relationship between the leads the carries the episode. K is for Kill is deeply tedious much of the time but has some really great scenes between Steed, Purdey and Gambit.


Again, not sure I agree, and I'm not trying to be contrary as a general rule.

The last episode "Emily" was a rollicking travel trip throughout the countryside; Forward Base had numerous scenes, on the water's edge, the trinket shop, the submarine, the park with the paddle boats; many episodes had interesting sets, outside, inside, and overall, I thought, very well done.

Steed's home did have the oddest set with the main half staircase; I guess a full staircase was out of the budget...?

I didn't find K for Kill tedious, at all, so no doubt plot review is based on individual subjective analysis.

K for Kill had good action and funny scenes. I'm not sure the physics of Gambit blocking a bullet, or shooting Steed up on the roof, but good thing he did happen to carry a cigarette case for others (no doubt his woman paramours). Also, getting shot with a rifle through the shoulder is a terrible wound, one of the worst places in the body to be shot. However, Hollywood (and associated European writers/directors) do not know that, and have created the myth of the shoulder being a great place to get shot.
_________________
Fan of John Steed
Agent, Esquire, Hunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mousemeat
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 4170
Location: Elvis Central, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mona wrote:
Darren wrote:
I think Patrick takes a long time to rediscover Steed. I think it was Sydney Newman who originally said to him in 1960, "Pat, I think you're great but you don't appear to be doing anything" and that's how I feel with Steed. He's solid but it takes quite a while for Steed to really feel authentically there rather than Macnee acting in the show like he would when guesting in other shows. He's rather lost in season 1. He's better written by season 2 but then the plots aren't as strong and the series isn't as stylish.

There's a greater emotional depth and bond - certainly one more on the surface than previously and more often.

Something that I feel the show wallows in far too often is a nostalgia for the past. It's like they don't enjoy the present so have to keep harking back to old spies, and old traitors and old friends etc. There's little confidence in what they could look forward to.


Wow, I am really going to strongly disagree with your comment, Darren, that season 2 scripts were not strong or stylish, at least, for raving Steed fans like myself. Both seasons had wonderful episodes and a couple of inferior ones. I absolutely adore season 2's "Dead Men Are Dangerous" (brilliant!; "Angels of Death" (excellent); Medium Rare (funny and interesting); Obsession (great Purdey back story and interactions with Steed; also, worst last two lines of any episode); Trap (ridiculous, insulting, and totally enjoyable); K is for Kill 1/2 (great TV); Emily (rolling good fun!); Forward Base (outstanding Steed episode--Butterfingers!).

Pat was fat in Season 1 and he admitted he put little effort into the character or the show. However, as he said, during the season break he ate salads and walked every evening and came back season 2 looking luscious! Oo-la-la! And, the episodes did delve into him and focus on him more, which always works for me. Purdey was played out more, too, and it was nice that it was vague whether or not she and Steed were anything more than dear friends, especially after Medium Rare, when he clearly infers he loves her, and in Angels of Death when she clearly infers she loves him. But, platonic friends can love each other, even though Purdey, in their car ride back to his house, certainly wanted to stay after the drinks and have sex pretty clearly inferred in "Dead Men Are Dangerous". What would have happened if Steed's home hadn't been burglared--we don't know. But, she is hanging out with him with the horses at the end of Medium Rare and Gambit is definitely an outsider at that moment.

Weaknesses of TNA as a whole include:
1. Purdey in danger all the time
2. Steed being accused of treason/traitor all the time
3. Everyone and their uncle knowing where Steed lived and apparently he had no alarm system.
4. Old friends dying right and left

But, the vast majority of episodes are very enjoyable for at least a Steed (and many other Avenger fans).




mona has made some very good points..as one of the biggest fans of Steed, her points are well taken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1323
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Series/Season 2 just isn't Avengerish enough for me. Obsession is more Professionals than NA. Emily is Dukes of H. Real cops should never appear in Avengerland. Steed plays a more central role, it's true. But there are too many episodes where Steed is under suspicion. Avengerland does not transfer to France or Canada easily. Clemens was bored with the project long before the money ran out. Nevertheless, at its best NA is wonderfully entertaining and the best ones rival most of the original filmed eras.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> The Avengers on Television All times are GMT - 9 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com

Free Web Hosting | File Hosting | Photo Gallery | Matrimonial


Powered by PhpBB.BizHat.com, setup your forum now!
For Support, visit Forums.BizHat.com