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worst episode
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:08 am    Post subject: worst episode Reply with quote

so..as great as the majority of episodes from the Honor-Diana-Linda-era, what was the worst episode from those series...in your opinion ?
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cyberrich
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ONLY Avengers episode I dislike is Homicide and old lace. I wish they had left the original episode (The Great Great Britain crime) as it was. Does anyone know if this exists in the vaults anywhere? I'm guessing not, as it would have surfaced on the boxset.
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paulh
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we are including The New Avengers too, Trap has to be a strong contender for the worst ever episode!
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulh wrote:
If we are including The New Avengers too, Trap has to be a strong contender for the worst ever episode!



sure, why not ? BTW, 'trap' was a crummy episode...woof !
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to go past Trap. I'd nominate The Grandeur that was Rome and Immortal Clay as contenders, with Trojan Horse as an outsider.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dissolute wrote:
Hard to go past Trap. I'd nominate The Grandeur that was Rome and Immortal Clay as contenders, with Trojan Horse as an outsider.


Is it just me ? or did the New Avengers, seemed to have more dismal episodes than the others ?
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Lee
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dissolute wrote:
Hard to go past Trap. I'd nominate The Grandeur that was Rome and Immortal Clay as contenders, with Trojan Horse as an outsider.


One man's meat.....

I really quite like Trojan Horse, but agree the others are a bit dull. Never understood why Immortal Clay was chosen over the likes of Mr Teddy Bear when Channel 4 did a rerun in the early 90s.

There are quite a few in series 5 which seem a little repetitive.

Have Guns... Will Haggle fails to hold my attention, as does Invasion of the Earthmen.

Some later series 2 episodes are weaker : six hand across a table and killer whale spring to mind.
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darren
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Grandeur that was Rome - a good cast and some excellent sets but I just can't engage with the story.

Agree about The Trojan Horse. I've no idea what the episode is about as I've never finished it.. I expect better from writer Malcolm Hulke.

The Gladiators is the weakest New Avengers episode for me. But it has the odd Purdey and Gambit moment to make it worth dipping into. I enjoy Trap (the regulars are always good value and there's some funky scoring from Johnson).
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee wrote:
dissolute wrote:
Hard to go past Trap. I'd nominate The Grandeur that was Rome and Immortal Clay as contenders, with Trojan Horse as an outsider.


One man's meat.....

I really quite like Trojan Horse, but agree the others are a bit dull. Never understood why Immortal Clay was chosen over the likes of Mr Teddy Bear when Channel 4 did a rerun in the early 90s.

There are quite a few in series 5 which seem a little repetitive.

Have Guns... Will Haggle fails to hold my attention, as does Invasion of the Earthmen.





Some later series 2 episodes are weaker : six hand across a table and killer

whale spring to mind.




so consider the worst Honor, Diana, and Linda episode....
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worst for me, by companion:

David: Diamond Cut Diamond (probably)
Martin: they're all good, but maybe Mission to Montreal
Venus: Box of Tricks
Cathy: Immortal Clay
Emma: The See-Through Man
Tara: Homicide and Old Lace
Gambit & Purdey: Trap
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Allard
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homicide and Old Lace is the only failed episode of The Avengers, it just falls flat after fifteen minutes, even the most charitable view has to acknowledge that it is a train wreck.

As for the rest, what is left of series one is pretty good. Series two has Box of Tricks, Immortal Clay is bizarrely set up but quite watchable in my opinion.

If I had to pick one from series three, I would say The Little Wonders, nice idea, boring episode. Death of a Batman has an uninteresting plot but dialogue and acting make up for it.

Series four, The Hour That Never Was is a terrific episode in charming moments between Steed and Emma and haunting scene's of desolation, but the plot never really made sense to me. A Sense of History is probably the least good series four episode.

In series five The £50,000 Breakfast is an odd one out, The See-Through Man and The Bird Who Knew Too Much for me are the most formulaic of this series. The Living Dead has its charming moments, but overall doesn't really work for me.

Series six: Invasion of the Earthmen is sub standard, Get-A-Way! fails to make me enthusiastic. Pandora is too melodramatic, The Curious Case of the Countless Clues and Split are not bad but I watch them because its been a long time, not out of eagerness.. And my personal favourite episode to hate: Look- (stop me if you've heard this one) But There Were These Two Fellers...

TNA: Gnaws is somewhat ludicrous but that does not deserve derision. The Last of the Cybernauts ...?? simply doesn't work well. (Trap I have to rewatch.) Gladiators is probably TNA's low point. K is for Kill (I and II) mediocre at best.
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paulh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worst episodes by partner for me are:

Cathy: The Grandeur that was Rome - I don't think I've ever managed to watch it all the way through without stopping

Emma: The Winged Avenger - there are quite few episodes in season five that I'm not keen on as they get a bit repetitive, but if I had to pick just one it would be this

Tara: Homicide and Old Lace - the basic plot seems okay but it's the editing and Mother's aunts that ruin it for me. I too wish we had just got the Great Great Britain Crime instead.

Gambit and Purdey: Trap - for me by far the worst episode from either The Avengers or TNA.
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paulh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberrich wrote:
The ONLY Avengers episode I dislike is Homicide and old lace. I wish they had left the original episode (The Great Great Britain crime) as it was. Does anyone know if this exists in the vaults anywhere? I'm guessing not, as it would have surfaced on the boxset.


Sadly, from what I've read, neither The Great Great Britain Crime nor Invitation to a Killing exists in the vaults. I'm quite curious about these and the original version of Invasion of the Earthmen to see what John Bryce's version of the Tara King era would have been like.
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darren
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulh wrote:
cyberrich wrote:
The ONLY Avengers episode I dislike is Homicide and old lace. I wish they had left the original episode (The Great Great Britain crime) as it was. Does anyone know if this exists in the vaults anywhere? I'm guessing not, as it would have surfaced on the boxset.


Sadly, from what I've read, neither The Great Great Britain Crime nor Invitation to a Killing exists in the vaults. I'm quite curious about these and the original version of Invasion of the Earthmen to see what John Bryce's version of the Tara King era would have been like.


Yes, I fascinated by this period do the show.

Of course, none of the episodes were technically completed, they were just a load of rushes. They weren't scored. For the sake of curiosity I'd love to see what an actual Bryce completed episode would have been like - with his version of a title sequence, with who he chose as composer - we don't even know if he'd had kept Laurie Johnson on or the theme.

Being a script by Terrance Dicks and Malcolm Hulke, I'd love to be able to read the their original script for The Great Great Britain Crime (I still think that's a fun title).
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paulh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
paulh wrote:
cyberrich wrote:
The ONLY Avengers episode I dislike is Homicide and old lace. I wish they had left the original episode (The Great Great Britain crime) as it was. Does anyone know if this exists in the vaults anywhere? I'm guessing not, as it would have surfaced on the boxset.


Sadly, from what I've read, neither The Great Great Britain Crime nor Invitation to a Killing exists in the vaults. I'm quite curious about these and the original version of Invasion of the Earthmen to see what John Bryce's version of the Tara King era would have been like.


Yes, I fascinated by this period do the show.

Of course, none of the episodes were technically completed, they were just a load of rushes. They weren't scored. For the sake of curiosity I'd love to see what an actual Bryce completed episode would have been like - with his version of a title sequence, with who he chose as composer - we don't even know if he'd had kept Laurie Johnson on or the theme.

Being a script by Terrance Dicks and Malcolm Hulke, I'd love to be able to read the their original script for The Great Great Britain Crime (I still think that's a fun title).


It is a great title! I think I recall Dave Rogers mentioning in one of his Avengers books that Bryce was planning to use a revamped version of the Dankworth Avengers theme for these episodes and that they were exploring the possibility of Cleo Laine singing a special theme for Tara.

If the scripts do survive, I guess there's a possibility that Big Finish might record them one day as part of their Avengers audiobook series (assuming it continues - apparently their Prisoner series has come to an end largely due to poor sales).
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Lee
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a great title! I think I recall Dave Rogers mentioning in one of his Avengers books that Bryce was planning to use a revamped version of the Dankworth Avengers theme for these episodes and that they were exploring the possibility of Cleo Laine singing a special theme for Tara.

[/quote]

I remember reading that, too. Brian Clemens said they had approached Johnny Dankworth about scoring each episode of series 4 individually, but he said he didn't have the time for that, hence the change of composer. I wonder if Dankworth would have done the incidentals as well, still given it to Johnson or gone down a different path....
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnson didn't do the incidental music anyway, that was Howard Blake.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dissolute wrote:
Johnson didn't do the incidental music anyway, that was Howard Blake.


that's right....especially in the 'Tara era'....Howard was a real music work horse.
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Brugeoise
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always had the same curiosity as to how an actual finished Bryce episode would have looked like. I suppose that there weren’t even plans for a title sequence during his time at the helm? After all, he was supposed to deliver the first seven episodes of the season together with the last Emma Peel ones to the US for broadcast as season 3 there...
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mousemeat wrote:
dissolute wrote:
Johnson didn't do the incidental music anyway, that was Howard Blake.


that's right....especially in the 'Tara era'....Howard was a real music work horse.


Oh, I meant only in the Tara era, I didn't think Howard Blake did any of the other music, as Laurie Johnson wrote so many pieces of music for the Emma Peel episodes.
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