The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index The Avengers International Fan Forum

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Avengers dvd set 3 (series 4) from Optimum
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> The Avengers on DVD/Blu Ray
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dissolute
The Ministry


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 1411
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm watching the series in turn and I've noticed the occassional oddity when capturing screens - some of Season 4 is a pan & scan crop to 4:3 of the original source material.
The picture qualiity is a billion times better than the A&E sets - I was shocked how awful they were; low quality compression, Never The Same Colour (the banding in the dark sections is atrocious) and weak lighting - but the weird cropping is disappointing.

I know it was shot on film but who cares now how it might have been framed for broadcast back then? (Well, as a historian I do care but I'd rather see the full picture, maybe the 4:3 framing could be a different DVD angle).

Oddly, you get more of the left edge, but less of the top and right. Maybe we'll get full frame in the blu-rays...

Regard:

A&E set:
http://www.dissolute.com.au/avweb/emmabw/misc/what-AE.jpg
Optimum set:
http://www.dissolute.com.au/avweb/emmabw/misc/what-OR.jpg

Not all episodes are affected, you can always spot it as there's a visible grey bar up the right edge where they've overlaid the mask. I can't think why they'd do such a thing in this widescreen age, surely presenting the entire frame is everyone's preference.
_________________
Mrs Peel, you're needed!
http://www.dissolute.com.au/the-avengers-tv-series/
Every episode from 1961 to 1977 plus more trivia than you can shake a brolly at.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cyberrich
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1010
Location: Midlands, U.K.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still watching the season 2 box set, so haven't got round to buying the others yet. There does seem to be an awful lot of the right side of the picture missing on the optimum dvd of the butler episode in the post above. Confused Why didn't they release the episodes with the full picture I wonder. Has anyone noticed this on any of the other episodes, and is anything vital missing? Rich.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4010
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dissolute wrote:
I'm watching the series in turn and I've noticed the occassional oddity when capturing screens - some of Season 4 is a pan & scan crop to 4:3 of the original source material.
The picture qualiity is a billion times better than the A&E sets - I was shocked how awful they were; low quality compression, Never The Same Colour (the banding in the dark sections is atrocious) and weak lighting - but the weird cropping is disappointing.

I know it was shot on film but who cares now how it might have been framed for broadcast back then? (Well, as a historian I do care but I'd rather see the full picture, maybe the 4:3 framing could be a different DVD angle).

Oddly, you get more of the left edge, but less of the top and right. Maybe we'll get full frame in the blu-rays...

Regard:

A&E set:
http://www.dissolute.com.au/avweb/emmabw/misc/what-AE.jpg
Optimum set:
http://www.dissolute.com.au/avweb/emmabw/misc/what-OR.jpg

Not all episodes are affected, you can always spot it as there's a visible grey bar up the right edge where they've overlaid the mask. I can't think why they'd do such a thing in this widescreen age, surely presenting the entire frame is everyone's preference.
That's odd. We were assured that the Optimum sets actually had more picture area, which is why you can sometimes see things you shouldn't, like stuntmen's hands waiting to catch people, etc.

Anyone have any idea what's going on??
_________________
Last watched: The Undertakers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alan
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 2930
Location: The Edge of Avengerland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as my page with grabs from the contentious episode (What the Butler Saw) demonstrates, the Optimum remaster has plenty more on show compared to the PAL masters:

http://declassified.theavengers.tv/avengernews_optimum_set3_captures.htm

If the NTSC masters of old had more picture area than this, then I'm at a loss to explain why or how.
_________________
Alan
--
The Avengers Declassified

Hidden Tiger Books - now available: Avengerworld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
dissolute
The Ministry


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 1411
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan wrote:
Well, as my page with grabs from the contentious episode (What the Butler Saw) demonstrates, the Optimum remaster has plenty more on show compared to the PAL masters:

http://declassified.theavengers.tv/avengernews_optimum_set3_captures.htm

If the NTSC masters of old had more picture area than this, then I'm at a loss to explain why or how.


Thanks Alan. That's weird, not one of my captures for those screens matches yours - it may be an issue with PowerDVD10 that I've been using to do the capturing. (It drives me nuts because the frame shuttle control is terrible, but it automatically saves as PNG or JPG, instead of just BMP, which the others all do, and that saves me tons of time).

I'll try the episode with different software - apologies to everyone if this turns out to be a false alarm!

I've only noticed it twice - both times trying to grab the face of an extra who was near the edge of the screen.

I've forgotten what the other episode was...
_________________
Mrs Peel, you're needed!
http://www.dissolute.com.au/the-avengers-tv-series/
Every episode from 1961 to 1977 plus more trivia than you can shake a brolly at.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dissolute
The Ministry


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 1411
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've just checked and my copy definitely has less visible than in your timecoded grabs, Alan, regardless of software.
I'll try it on the TV to make sure but it looks like a snafu.
_________________
Mrs Peel, you're needed!
http://www.dissolute.com.au/the-avengers-tv-series/
Every episode from 1961 to 1977 plus more trivia than you can shake a brolly at.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alan
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 2930
Location: The Edge of Avengerland

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, the grabs on my page are pre-release, sent to me by Optimum, so goodness knows what's happened.
_________________
Alan
--
The Avengers Declassified

Hidden Tiger Books - now available: Avengerworld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cyberrich
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1010
Location: Midlands, U.K.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to buy this box set but it's looking as if it's unavailable. Confused
I bought the first two box sets recently from cavalcade on play.com, but series 4 is not being sold by cavalcade on play. It is unavailable on the amazon and hmv sites. I didn't want to buy it from anyone other than cavalcade as it may be an uncorrected set. Seems strange to be unavailable so soon. Does anyone know if cavalcade are planning to sell more of series 4, or if any more are likely to be manufactured if they have all been sold out Question Thanks, Rich.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dandy Forsdyke
Diabolical Mastermind


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 5281
Location: Camberwick Green

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed this set was unavailable when I was trying to decide whether it was better to buy the series sets individually and the extra disc, totalling up the cost of each set, or go for the one complete box set - and fanny about with the dodgy disc removal Rolling Eyes
_________________

THE AVENGERS GALLERY
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Alan
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 2930
Location: The Edge of Avengerland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth pointing out that Optimum appear to have been completely consumed by Studio Canal now, so it's possible the old email addy is dead or at least no longer reliable (if it ever was).

See this page for updated details:

http://www.studiocanal.co.uk/Home/AboutUs
_________________
Alan
--
The Avengers Declassified

Hidden Tiger Books - now available: Avengerworld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cyberrich
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1010
Location: Midlands, U.K.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just ordered series 4 from cavalcade. Best series of telly ever! Only 22! Very Happy So glad it's back on the market after being sold out for several weeks.
Could someone remind me of what I need to check to see if it is the corrected version. Does it say something like V2 on the discs? Also which discs were affected? Hopefully these will be ok though if they've only just been manufactured. Many thanks, Rich.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Macfly77
Thingumajig


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberrich wrote:
Could someone remind me of what I need to check to see if it is the corrected version. Does it say something like V2 on the discs? Also which discs were affected?

From The Avengers Declassified website:

"Check the shiny side of the disc near the centre hole for the code number. If the number contains 'V2' you do not need to return your disc as it is already the corrected version."
"The first pressing of this release had problems affecting Discs 3 and 7. Corrected replacements for Discs 3 (picture freeze at 43:20 in The Gravediggers) and 7 (digital drop-out in The Strange Case of the Missing Corpse) were made available from Optimum Releasing."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davidf
Thingumajig


Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 98
Location: Avengerland Forever

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dissolute, I checked out your scene on both my disc, and the new version is indeed zoomed in for no apparent reason on the remaster

A&E



Optimum



I have no clue why it is that way. However if you apply the 35mm viewfinder on the A&E frame, you realise that the Optimum is closer to the "correct" intended framing, so it's not really a problem, assuming the old A&E was a scan of the entire "exposed" frame.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4010
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seventeen wrote:
Dissolute, I checked out your scene on both my disc, and the new version is indeed zoomed in for no apparent reason on the remaster

I have no clue why it is that way. However if you apply the 35mm viewfinder on the A&E frame, you realise that the Optimum is closer to the "correct" intended framing, so it's not really a problem, assuming the old A&E was a scan of the entire "exposed" frame.
But wasn't a big selling point of the new Optimum disks that (in most cases) more of the full film frame is visible - with some delighted viewers even saying how you could see stunt assistant's hands ready to catch Emma Peel, edges of sets, microphone booms, etc? Is this just one rogue episode that has been "correctly" framed i.e. zoomed in?
_________________
Last watched: The Undertakers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davidf
Thingumajig


Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 98
Location: Avengerland Forever

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will check out the others episodes see if this happens.

Actually, more of the full film frame should not be visible - and viewers should never see stunt assistant's hands ready to catch Emma Peel, edges of sets, microphone booms, etc.

If you have examples, please thanks if you can indicate the episodes and timings.

My feeling for now, having lived with the BW box set and seen the HD color Riggs, is that most, if all the episodes do not represent the intended frame and they need to be rectified to correct framing ratio. More isn't good. Those shows were shot with precision and parts of the frame not intended to be seen should not be exposed, especially in 4/3 format.

I have a feeling most of the episodes are framed too wide, and then adjusted from shot to shot on those new transfert. It doesn't work because the "common top" (edge of head, which is usually kept at the same place within the frame by the director of photography) moves up and down from shots to shots, and it totally ruins the compositions.

Hopefully, the transferts were made capturing the whole frame on the negatives, so fixing the framing should only be a matter of electronics reframing, not going back to the transfert board.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4010
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad I held on to my Contender sets as well as getting the new ones!
_________________
Last watched: The Undertakers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4010
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seventeen wrote:
I will check out the others episodes see if this happens.

Actually, more of the full film frame should not be visible - and viewers should never see stunt assistant's hands ready to catch Emma Peel, edges of sets, microphone booms, etc.

If you have examples, please thanks if you can indicate the episodes and timings.
Well, jaz mentioned in this thread that "In the new masters of The Murder Market you can see the technicians hands waiting to catch Diana Rigg when she is hanging on half way up the wall in the marriage bureau office during her fight with Suzanne Lloyd."

Someone posted a screengrab - possibly on another forum - of a cameraman's foot in shot when a high-level (roof) camera angle was following a car in a street.

Then again, "What the Butler Saw" seemed to go the other way, with huge chunks of shot framed out. I'm glad you mention that many episodes have framing all over the place. It's almost as if all the film elements were restored separately and then re-edited with no regard to the original framing!
_________________
Last watched: The Undertakers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> The Avengers on DVD/Blu Ray All times are GMT - 9 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
Page 12 of 12

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com

Free Web Hosting | File Hosting | Photo Gallery | Matrimonial


Powered by PhpBB.BizHat.com, setup your forum now!
For Support, visit Forums.BizHat.com