The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index The Avengers International Fan Forum

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Anticlockwise feedback
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> Avengers Books and Merchandise
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1328
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.


See what you think about Lauren's essay and Timeless' Afterword. They make a fascinating pair of contrasting views.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4050
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine hasn't arrived yet - the order says "ships in 6-8 business days" but also "delivers 17 business days after printing", which is a bit confusing.
_________________
Last watched: The Man in the Mirror.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.
I really enjoy your writing style Darren. You have a talent for putting things in perspective. This was a very disjointed era. Because you cowrote Homicide and Old Lace, I decided to read it and was impressed at how you explained it. I loved the beginning. It is a crime that it is unwatchable.

It is confusing for the viewer to see this towards the end of the series, when it was recycled from the beginning. So all of this helped make this horrible episode become clearer. Also made a lot of sense that they just did not care about the quality at this point.

I do have a question as I was trying to figure this out. How did you know that "WHo was that Man I saw you with", was the final episode they produced with the belief that the show would go on? I had thought it was later in the season, but brilliantly put that after that episode they were all recycled plots and overall very weak epsiodes.
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1328
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
Mine hasn't arrived yet - the order says "ships in 6-8 business days" but also "delivers 17 business days after printing", which is a bit confusing.


Haven't received my hardback either. With Citylink going bust, they might be in a depot gathering dust.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darren
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1823
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
Darren wrote:
I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.
I really enjoy your writing style Darren. You have a talent for putting things in perspective. This was a very disjointed era. Because you cowrote Homicide and Old Lace, I decided to read it and was impressed at how you explained it. I loved the beginning. It is a crime that it is unwatchable.

It is confusing for the viewer to see this towards the end of the series, when it was recycled from the beginning. So all of this helped make this horrible episode become clearer. Also made a lot of sense that they just did not care about the quality at this point.

I do have a question as I was trying to figure this out. How did you know that "WHo was that Man I saw you with", was the final episode they produced with the belief that the show would go on? I had thought it was later in the season, but brilliantly put that after that episode they were all recycled plots and overall very weak epsiodes.


Thank you so much for saying that, Margo, as it was one of my aims to put it in context. I loved writing the other two but it's the chapter I felt most satisfied structurally.

I went through the forum for comments about Homicide and Old Lace and found a comment by Fountain of Archive knowledge, Andrew Pixley, about "Who was that Man..." being the last one made before the no more edict came.

I loved your insights into Legacy of Death that I read last night. Fascinated by your spin and Steed and Tara's lifestyle. It's all made me want to see the episode again. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darren
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1823
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
Darren wrote:
I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.


See what you think about Lauren's essay and Timeless' Afterword. They make a fascinating pair of contrasting views.


Although I doubt I'll agree with her, I am looking forward to reading what Lauren thinks as I know it'll be well argued.

Off topic - Something that occurred to me the other day for the general topics book was, is anyone doing an analysis of women in the series. We all know how well regarded the leads are but how did the show represent women in general. Lots of people have been doing that test recently - I forget the name - where they analyse films and TV to look at how women interact, if they only talk about men and if women talk to each other without a man present etc etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lhbizness
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's called the Bechdel Test and requires that two female characters have a conversation about something other than a man. The Avengers does pass, I believe, although individual episodes might not. (Though my favorite test is the lamp test: replace a female character with a lamp. If the plot is not altered in any way, the film or show fails).

The Bechdel Test really was a joke to begin with, but it's amazing how many shows and films fail even that. But it's also very incomplete: a film can be extraordinarily misogynist and still pass the test (see: Sucker Punch); a film can likewise fail, but still be far from anti-woman or anti-feminist. It's just another measure of representation.

You can disagree with me: I'm still right. Wink
Back to top
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
Darren wrote:
I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.
I really enjoy your writing style Darren. You have a talent for putting things in perspective. This was a very disjointed era. Because you cowrote Homicide and Old Lace, I decided to read it and was impressed at how you explained it. I loved the beginning. It is a crime that it is unwatchable.

It is confusing for the viewer to see this towards the end of the series, when it was recycled from the beginning. So all of this helped make this horrible episode become clearer. Also made a lot of sense that they just did not care about the quality at this point.

I do have a question as I was trying to figure this out. How did you know that "WHo was that Man I saw you with", was the final episode they produced with the belief that the show would go on? I had thought it was later in the season, but brilliantly put that after that episode they were all recycled plots and overall very weak epsiodes.


Thank you so much for saying that, Margo, as it was one of my aims to put it in context. I loved writing the other two but it's the chapter I felt most satisfied structurally.

I went through the forum for comments about Homicide and Old Lace and found a comment by Fountain of Archive knowledge, Andrew Pixley, about "Who was that Man..." being the last one made before the no more edict came.

I loved your insights into Legacy of Death that I read last night. Fascinated by your spin and Steed and Tara's lifestyle. It's all made me want to see the episode again. Smile
I think writing about a dreadful episode takes talent to make it so compelling as you did. I am laughing that you found the fountain of archive-Andrew Laughing In fact I wondered in general how you know so much about the production end of things. I really struggle to find those details. I am jumping around so next on my list is countless clues.

Thanks for the compliment on Legacy. Given how much I idealize TA I found it extraordinarily difficult to criticize them because they are just perfect. Laughing What helped was actually reading other contributors chapters who were more balanced like yours. But the jokes on Legacy were really hilarious and my favorite Tara episode.
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darren
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1823
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lhbizness wrote:
It's called the Bechdel Test


That's the one. I wasn't aware of it until a few months ago but it makes for interesting results on some shows.

Quote:
You can disagree with me: I'm still right. Wink


lol Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darren
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 1823
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anti-clockwise wrote:
I think writing about a dreadful episode takes talent to make it so compelling as you did. I am laughing that you found the fountain of archive-Andrew Laughing In fact I wondered in general how you know so much about the production end of things. I really struggle to find those details. I am jumping around so next on my list is countless clues.


TV and Film production has long been a big interest for me. I love absorbing the technicalities, crafts and skills that go into putting it together. I try to dig around for any relevant interviews and comments from the writers, directors, actors etc and Michael Richardson's recent book has been especially helpful with the nuggets of behind the scenes info.

I'm totally at sea when it comes to looking at the thematic qualities of an episode.Smile

Quote:
Thanks for the compliment on Legacy. Given how much I idealize TA I found it extraordinarily difficult to criticize them because they are just perfect. Laughing What helped was actually reading other contributors chapters who were more balanced like yours. But the jokes on Legacy were really hilarious and my favorite Tara episode.


You reminded me of how many good gags there are that episodes - the assassin who dies when leaping on to Steed and Tara was an instant rewind moment when I first saw it and it still makes me laugh.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikeR
Epic


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 1103
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
I think writing about a dreadful episode takes talent to make it so compelling as you did. I am laughing that you found the fountain of archive-Andrew Laughing In fact I wondered in general how you know so much about the production end of things. I really struggle to find those details. I am jumping around so next on my list is countless clues.


TV and Film production has long been a big interest for me. I love absorbing the technicalities, crafts and skills that go into putting it together. I try to dig around for any relevant interviews and comments from the writers, directors, actors etc and Michael Richardson's recent book has been especially helpful with the nuggets of behind the scenes info.

I'm totally at sea when it comes to looking at the thematic qualities of an episode.Smile

Quote:
Thanks for the compliment on Legacy. Given how much I idealize TA I found it extraordinarily difficult to criticize them because they are just perfect. Laughing What helped was actually reading other contributors chapters who were more balanced like yours. But the jokes on Legacy were really hilarious and my favorite Tara episode.


You reminded me of how many good gags there are that episodes - the assassin who dies when leaping on to Steed and Tara was an instant rewind moment when I first saw it and it still makes me laugh.


If Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots is inspiring and assisting others to write about The Avengers, then I'm extremely happy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
I think writing about a dreadful episode takes talent to make it so compelling as you did. I am laughing that you found the fountain of archive-Andrew Laughing In fact I wondered in general how you know so much about the production end of things. I really struggle to find those details. I am jumping around so next on my list is countless clues.


TV and Film production has long been a big interest for me. I love absorbing the technicalities, crafts and skills that go into putting it together. I try to dig around for any relevant interviews and comments from the writers, directors, actors etc and Michael Richardson's recent book has been especially helpful with the nuggets of behind the scenes info.

I'm totally at sea when it comes to looking at the thematic qualities of an episode.Smile

Quote:
Thanks for the compliment on Legacy. Given how much I idealize TA I found it extraordinarily difficult to criticize them because they are just perfect. Laughing What helped was actually reading other contributors chapters who were more balanced like yours. But the jokes on Legacy were really hilarious and my favorite Tara episode.


You reminded me of how many good gags there are that episodes - the assassin who dies when leaping on to Steed and Tara was an instant rewind moment when I first saw it and it still makes me laugh.
Well you are seriously talented at integrating and seeing all these connections that would go right past me. Your background really shows. It is really quite amazing that after 50 years so much can still be learned about the production of the show and how it was reflected in the episode. It is really marvelous that there is a place to read about these production details . 2014 has been kind to TA in all these great books, with Mike and Alan and Rodney's books.

I just read Countless Clues. I love the connection you make that Tara is the new "Mother" in her role as an invalid for this episode. Brilliant deduction. Fits perfectly. Also who would have picked up the Perry Mason connection? I had no idea till I read you chapter that Clemens had anything to do with that show.
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."


Last edited by anti-clockwise on Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anti-clockwise
The Bird Who Wrote Too Much


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1683

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeR wrote:
Darren wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
I think writing about a dreadful episode takes talent to make it so compelling as you did. I am laughing that you found the fountain of archive-Andrew Laughing In fact I wondered in general how you know so much about the production end of things. I really struggle to find those details. I am jumping around so next on my list is countless clues.


TV and Film production has long been a big interest for me. I love absorbing the technicalities, crafts and skills that go into putting it together. I try to dig around for any relevant interviews and comments from the writers, directors, actors etc and Michael Richardson's recent book has been especially helpful with the nuggets of behind the scenes info.

I'm totally at sea when it comes to looking at the thematic qualities of an episode.Smile

Quote:
Thanks for the compliment on Legacy. Given how much I idealize TA I found it extraordinarily difficult to criticize them because they are just perfect. Laughing What helped was actually reading other contributors chapters who were more balanced like yours. But the jokes on Legacy were really hilarious and my favorite Tara episode.


You reminded me of how many good gags there are that episodes - the assassin who dies when leaping on to Steed and Tara was an instant rewind moment when I first saw it and it still makes me laugh.


If Bowler Hats and Kinky Boots is inspiring and assisting others to write about The Avengers, then I'm extremely happy.
Your book definitely has been a huge resource for all of us. I have appreciated your help and you are always so informative on any question-even trivial ones! You are quoted in numerous chapters in Anticlockwise, including mine. Happy New Years to all. I guess it literally is New Years in England.
_________________
"He likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4050
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My copy arrived yesterday. Hooray!! The hardback is rather splendid.

I've so far read the intros and afterword, Jay's chapters, and the chapter on "Legacy of Death" which was lovely - one of my favourite episodes and the characters were captured in some very enjoyable and adroit phrases; really enhanced my appreciation of it. I am so glad to see the admiration for the plethora of great character actors, they're the making of this episode - a cast to kill for (literally!). I think I may have to watch it again from the German set as a New Year treat (along with the Cathy Gale New Year-set "Dressed To Kill", of course)!

I loved Jay's chapters; she gave great insight into the triangle of complementary skills and personalities of Mother, Steed and Tara - an aspect I really hadn't recognised the depth of before.

Think it'll be time for Margo's chapters next!
_________________
Last watched: The Man in the Mirror.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4050
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lhbizness wrote:
It's called the Bechdel Test and requires that two female characters have a conversation about something other than a man. The Avengers does pass, I believe, although individual episodes might not.
Not surprising, as it was the first show on TV with a feminist lead. Cathy does her own investigating (by necessity when Steed is off getting ready for his next scene). Some of her conversations may not involve male criminals.
_________________
Last watched: The Man in the Mirror.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1328
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're very lucky to have picked up so many talented writers to contribute to these books: as you say, Jay's chapters are always first class, and the likes of Sam, Matthew, Lauren, Frank H, and Darren all write entertainingly. I think that Dan brings a no bull**** approach to his analysis, while with Margo you just know that she will find a new angle, which is great for readers. Piers like to concentrate on the visual appeal which offers a contrast to the likes of Jay who concentrates on characters. However, of all the writers, I take my hat off to Sunday because to be a television critic and postgrad when you are deaf and have to lip-read is a quite phenomenal achievement.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1328
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lauren and Sunday possess a very rare skill: academics who write very, very well!
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frankymole
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4050
Location: Carmadoc research establishment

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The writing is just sublime. I ought to only PM this to Jay, really. For example, the joy in the alliteration of "turning the tables and targeting Tara as the traitor" made me laugh aloud at its audacity - followed by the immediate sucker punch whereby it "allows for a new perspective on all three of the season's leads" and not only preludes a juicy new analysis of Mother's importance but is a piece of fun writing in itself.

The triumph of these books is that they marry exquisite writing skill with the most in-depth view of the series (the perfect viewing companion, with enormous food for thought). I'm almost ashamed to submit my paltry efforts!

It's a splendid Christmas treat, this book - nothing tinselly or insubstantial like the rest of the Xmas decorations, instead all truly varied and shining gems. Facets of the source, The Avengers. Can't think of anything it has been so much fun to be a fan of.
_________________
Last watched: The Man in the Mirror.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1328
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. I think that by marrying beautifully written chapters with an in-depth analysis that these episodes have never had before, you get a wonderful product. There's no doubt that Anticlockwise is the best of the three volumes to date. Writers now feel more confident and both the Tara era and The New Avengers feel more like breaking into unexplored territory. After all, everyone know the 'apeel' of the previous seasons.
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rodders
The Big Thinker


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1328
Location: Avengerland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
I'm almost ashamed to submit my paltry efforts!



All the writers are top class!
_________________
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Avengers International Fan Forum Forum Index -> Avengers Books and Merchandise All times are GMT - 9 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 3 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com

Free Web Hosting | File Hosting | Photo Gallery | Matrimonial


Powered by PhpBB.BizHat.com, setup your forum now!
For Support, visit Forums.BizHat.com