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Season 6 Intro & Credits: "Targets" vs "S
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Which do you prefer? "Targets" or "Suits of Armor" (S6 intro/outro)
Targets
33%
 33%  [ 5 ]
Suits of Armor
66%
 66%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 15

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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrspeel01 wrote:
many thanks Denis!

re: the Targets credits. These were included on some episodes shown on German TV. When I first got Sky TV way back in the early '90s, when it was analogue, it was able to pick up some European channels, that were also on the Astra Satellite. I believe one was the German ZDF (I am relying on memory of 20+ years so it might have been another German channel!) It showed Avengers for a time (under the German title and dubbed of course!). I saw some Rigg B&W & Thorson episodes. The Rigg ones had the slightly different German opening (this is included in the special features on the Optimum series 4 set). Link is below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GmQ-saKJig

One of the Thorsons had the targets credits but i can't remember which one it was!!!

On the original channel 4 showings, if my memory is correct, I believe "Look (stop me..." was actually the only one with the targets credits. I was so surprised as I had never seen it before, or even knew about it. I remember being so glad that I had taped it.


Many Thanks, mrspeel01, too. It's so interesting! Smile
Nice moments, many years ago I first saw the original German titles for Thorson episodes on YouTube - it begins with the opening armour titles and finished as target titles. It remained only to guess whether all Thorson episodes were made in such a way or only some. Smile

I liked the way they made their views on the Emma Peel b/w episodes intro. Adds the spirit of criminology, investigations and exciting turns. Very Happy
Of course it's a bit prepares viewers to other Avengers, but the German studio did this approach very exciting.

Oh, I forgot to clarify, mrspeel01, "Look (stop me..." was transmitted with open and final Target titles or only open?

In any case, it's simply super. I suspect, somewhere in the special archives have all seven Thorson episodes with target titles.
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mrspeel01
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Denis.

The channel 4 showing was the full targets version. My mind is really hazy on the German showing. I remember I had just turned to the channel just to see which story it was, and the titles were just starting. I believe it was also the full targets version, as I think I would have remembered the version you describe. I wish I had recorded it, but I just watched the episodes as I was curious about the German voices! The version you mention is very interesting!

I also like the German opening for the Rigg B&W. I assume that sequence was devised/produced by the German network, rather than Brian Clemens, who devised the American chessboard sequence.
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers - channel 4 transmited version of full targets titles. Really a very rare item.
By the way, when episode Invasion of the Eartmen was transmitted on USA TV on 13 November 1971, version still was with target titles. Wink
http://steedumbrella.ru/Super8_Private.html

Curious, that Australia, New Zealand and Singapoure transmitted this episode (and also The Curious Case of the Countless Clues and Get-a-Way!) before UK. We can assume that in 1968 there could be transmitted versions with Target titles too. Smile UK tranmitted Invasion of the Eartmen for first time only in 1969.

Aha, so seems original German Thorson episodes were in different versions. Interesting.

Yes, I assume that German intro for the Rigg B&W was devised/produced by the German network too. Wink
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mrspeel01
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great information Denis. Thank you.
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
With the number of directors involved, I wonderful if there were more shots for the armour titles that they didn't use..


Darren

The second day of filming on the opening titles at Tykes Water Lake on the Aldenham Estate was on July 4th and this material was once again directed by Robert Fuest. Of the regular cast only Patrick Macnee was present, presumably to drive his vintage Rolls Royce, which was also on location. When assembling the opening titles, it was obviously thought that this footage was not needed and so it does not appear. There was a steam powered traction engine on location all day presumably for inclusion in the titles, but the lettering ‘not called’ printed beside the vehicle on the daily progress report indicates that it was not used for filming.
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

denis rigg wrote:
Happychap 2.0 wrote:
Thanks Mike R, Denis and others....

in summation:

John Krish did the wine glass and champagne bottle S5
then Booth did the Targets S6 intro/outro
then Fuest (possible help from Crichton) for Suits of Armor intro
Hough for the outro

is that right?


Robert Fuest (help from Crichton) for Suits of Armor intro. Wink Although I do not know what exactly Charles Crichton did. Confused

Hmm, there still is a good mystery who was the director of the chess sequence. Confused


Denis

While directing material for the episode False Witness on Thursday 11 July 1968, Charles Chrichton also directed an insert for the second set of Thorson opening titles that involved an extra and not Linda as she was not called for filming there that day. I think the only part of the opening titles that could be an insert is the close-up shot of Tara (her face is not seen) catching the bouquet of carnations having just come through the pink door. This could well have been done inside a soundstage with the correct lighting.
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for targets but I like them both - although at times I dislike them both as they both have failings.
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TrueIndigo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retrospectively I like the targets intro because it is very 60's in style and stylized in a similar way to the Season five intro, so the continuity is rewarding for friends of the show. I don't ever remember actually seeing it though when I saw the show first broadcast in the UK, so my personal nostalgia that I associate with Season 6 is the mysterious standing knights version. An English rural setting and the lake at Tykes Water, Tara King running through a doorway as if from another world - what more can you ask while that champagne theme music is running? And that surreal image, of a doorway in a field, has remained with me for decades; I love the audacity of it! Yes, it's mad, possibly meaningless, but Avengerland is a fun game, and this seems to be the entry to it, so come on in.
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Spaceship Dispatcher
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The suits of armour intro is my favourite regardless, so would beat any alternate intros to my vote Smile
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the door they chose - it appears a few times in the season 6. Lovely thick paneled frames. I know I'm weird but I've always loved doors.Smile

I'm sure that John Hough said on the Morning After dvd commentary that he did the bridge running shot!
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeR wrote:
While directing material for the episode False Witness on Thursday 11 July 1968, Charles Chrichton also directed an insert for the second set of Thorson opening titles that involved an extra and not Linda as she was not called for filming there that day. I think the only part of the opening titles that could be an insert is the close-up shot of Tara (her face is not seen) catching the bouquet of carnations having just come through the pink door. This could well have been done inside a soundstage with the correct lighting.


Thanks, Mike, and I think, you're right, only part of the opening titles that could be an insert of Charles Crichton for Linda is the close-up shot of Tara, where face is not seen.

Darren wrote:
I'm sure that John Hough said on the Morning After dvd commentary that he did the bridge running shot!


I still on old opinion too, Darren, that John Hough was included in opening titles. Wink We can suggest the possibility that John Hough could specifically not mention later about, by reasons, for example, if he suddenly decided that his contribution was very negligible or maybe he thought about something else, as sometimes our memory works best visually.

Bright event.

One day a few years ago Aleksey Arsent'ev, one of the founders Steedumbrella, raised the subject in range of Russian fans on his fanfics. He said that he wrote only one story about the Avengers and a story about Linzia.
When I was left alone with Aleksey (I did not want to speak publicly), I asked him, "Did he remember anything about the story Rain?". He looked at me puzzled and asked, "What is this Rain?". I told him a summary of story and he said, "I have no idea what you're talking." At this point, I discovered that it was other his fanfic about Steed, which has already posted on the website. He thought it was a joke. Internet was at hand, he quickly found the story and began to read. I remember that when he read half of the prologue, he still could not remember any thing. He was sure at 100 percent when only read half of the story. After he said "It was a long time ago, Denis, unfortunately a lot of things such a plan is not retained in my memory." I noticed "Unfortunately, this is typical, when we grow up, however, the only one thing I worried, Aleksey". He looked at me and I said, "You are talking about own story Rain about five years ago." He did not believe it.
Only when Sergey Pronin and Aleksei Sidorov confirmed it, as they have witnessed for a while, he realized that his memory is erased in a short time one of the most important events.

Not surprisingly, I'm sure any of us when re-read the articles or watching films, etc., which we "learned" last time for a long time ago, we find something that we have forgotten. Wink

Also I read that Cyril Frankel could not remember things about his Avengers episode. Wink

etc...
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Sam
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrspeel01 wrote:
Funny you mention about having the option to view the Targets credits-i actually e-mailed Jaz Wiseman about this while he was preparing the special features for the Optimum sets. I also asked about the option to view the Chessboard opening sequence for series 4, just for completeness. (There were other features I asked about, but I can't remember them now). He kindly replied saying that they had got a limited budget for all the features and he wanted to concentrate on getting as many of them as he could. From this I gathered that it would be a bit costly to have the "branching" option on some, or all the discs in a set.

re: forget-me-knot closing credits. Yes, there is an alternative take on this. If memory serves, one features Linda Thorson turning to look at the camera as she and Patrick Macnee walk away at the end.


Forget-Me-Knot also credits "Introducing Linda Thorson as Tara King" instead of "And...".

When I was growing up in the 70's, the syndicated repeats our local station showed had several episodes with the Targets opening and closing. There were also some that had a shortened version of the Armor Fields titles that I have not seen since.
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Sam
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be more specific about the shortened version I mentioned:

It started with the main theme, instead of the drum roll. The title read "The Avengers in Color", then came the sword hitting the shield. After that, it immediately cut to the "Starring Patrick Macnee", "And Linda Thorson" credits, however, they were superimposed over the action shots of Steed and Tara instead of the freeze-frames. After Linda's title, it then cut to Steed pushing over the armor, followed by the "Produced by Albert Fennell and Brian Clemens".

Not sure if this was ever shown in the UK or was a US version.
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Happychap 2.0
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
To be more specific about the shortened version I mentioned:

It started with the main theme, instead of the drum roll. The title read "The Avengers in Color", then came the sword hitting the shield. After that, it immediately cut to the "Starring Patrick Macnee", "And Linda Thorson" credits, however, they were superimposed over the action shots of Steed and Tara instead of the freeze-frames. After Linda's title, it then cut to Steed pushing over the armor, followed by the "Produced by Albert Fennell and Brian Clemens".

Not sure if this was ever shown in the UK or was a US version.


This has jogged my memory...I seem to recall a shortened version too (here in the US)
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mrspeel01
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always been curious about this shortened version and would love to see it. I believe it was only shown in US. I don't think it was ever shown in UK.

Denis Rigg has mentioned about a "joined" titles version, which starts with armour titles and ends with Targets. (Would love to see this also). Don't know if the shortened version of Armour titles was ever shown outside US.
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Catweazle
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrspeel01 wrote:
many thanks Denis!

re: the Targets credits. These were included on some episodes shown on German TV. When I first got Sky TV way back in the early '90s, when it was analogue, it was able to pick up some European channels, that were also on the Astra Satellite. I believe one was the German ZDF (I am relying on memory of 20+ years so it might have been another German channel!) It showed Avengers for a time (under the German title and dubbed of course!). I saw some Rigg B&W & Thorson episodes. The Rigg ones had the slightly different German opening (this is included in the special features on the Optimum series 4 set). Link is below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GmQ-saKJig

One of the Thorsons had the targets credits but i can't remember which one it was!!!

On the original channel 4 showings, if my memory is correct, I believe "Look (stop me..." was actually the only one with the targets credits. I was so surprised as I had never seen it before, or even knew about it. I remember being so glad that I had taped it.


Nope - i´m afraid you are wrong on this.. ZDF never showed any Tara episode with the target titles - the first time the german audience could see them was with the airing of "Split" on german/french channel "Arte" few years back.
That what was shown from the Tara King episodes on ZDF back in the early 70s had the field/armour credits tacked to the beginning of each episode (minus the "Avengers in Color" card at the very beginning, that was always omitted). But - and on an interesting note - ZDF chose to use a shortened version of the Target end credits for each episode. The card tricks outro was never seen in germany up until Arte showed the complete series a few years ago.
But..... French channel Antenne 2 (now France2) showed the Tara King episodes in the early 90s - and there was more than one episode with the Target credits! Some of them had the mixed up audio minus the gunshots. As for the version with the gunshots - i know there is a french DVD set out there that has the field/armour credits but with the gunshots audio. Also the credits on that version are in french. I borrowed those DVDs from a work collegue of mine who purchased them in france and i think to remember that they came from one of these collection sets that come together with a magazine, the ones you can buy on a newsstand..
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mrspeel01
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the correction! As I Stated I was relying on memory of 20 years or more and I didn't know for sure if it was ZDF. ZDF was the one i was most familar with!!

If it was NOT ZDF, then, it might well have been the one you mention. This would explain the Thorson eps. shown with the target titles.!! I may well have mixed it up!! Perhaps the Rigg B&W eps. with the German opening were also shown or maybe it was another channel!!!! I wish my memory was clearer and I wish i knew which European sat. channels showed Avengers in the 1990s.!!!

The "newsstand" DVDs you mention are known as "partwork dvds" also known as "the kiosque edition". These were initially released individually with a magazine that contained information on the episodes on that DVD. They were also available later in collector sets known as "kiosque" as they were presented inside a small red-plastic British telephone box! I have the 2 kisoque sets for the Emma Peel seasons. They are nice, but bulky!

There were also sets for Tara King and Cathy Gale. The Gale season 2 set also contained the DVD for season 1. The season 1 partwork DVD was the first time the Ian Hendry episode "girl on the trapeze" was available. (it also contained "the frighteners" and 1st act of "Hot snow"=all in English with burnt-in french subtitles). I remember that particular DVD, because it was then a French exclusive, and was being sold on ebay UK, for prices such as£50, and one for even £100.! I managed to get one from a french seller on priceminister for £10! As the DVD was not rare in France, the seller obviously didn't know what it was going for in UK!


Last edited by mrspeel01 on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:28 pm; edited 6 times in total
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TrueIndigo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the benefit now of watching these on DVD, with the standing knights intro I noticed in the shot overlaid with "Produced by Albert Fennell Brian Clemens" you can just see Linda's hair at the bottom of the frame! I assume the 35mm was shot in standard Academy 1.37:1 ratio, and this overscan limit would not have appeared in the picture seen on the average CRT television set of the time. For some reason Linda was holding station in the doorway, waiting to shoot or having just shot, the scene when she runs between the standing knights with the bunch of carnations. But the cameraman has tilted the camera up to shoot the angled sky shot with a clear area for the producers credits, while Linda (or a stand in?) remained in position within the doorway. You can almost imagine the director saying: "Hold on Linda, before we do another, while the clouds are still looking good we'd better do the static shot."
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mrspeel01
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I remember now that the German sat. Channel that showed the Rigg b&w episodes in the '90s was "SAT.1" When I posted the German season 5 opening credits the sat.1 Logo was very fàmiliar. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was. The Thorson eps with the target credits may well have been shown by another channel, such as the French one mentioned. There was no on-screen TV guide to keep track of things then so you needed a good memory! Plus at that time the Sky box only had 1 tuner ! Also, the only way to record then was via an external VCR and only the channel beiñg watched!! Seems so primitive now!! The next generation of sky boxes had 2 tuners and then eventually a record facility when HDDs came in!
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