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frank
Little Wonder


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 224
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes I recall those threads and appreciated them.

I've analyzed enough films in my day to recognize many of the issues you cited. The film was a creative failure that could have been much better

I was just stunned that a writer for Forbes magazine was enough of a fan of the show to write about the failure of the film even with the angle of tying it into a current blockbuster film that failed for similar reasons.

At least Jeremiah Chechik did not indulge in the eccentric and anti-social behavior that the director of the Fantastic Four has been recently reported to have committed during shooting
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MikeR
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Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank

I had heard bad things about the Fantastic Four movie for several months, although I was surprised that last weekend it was the most popular film for box office takings in the UK, out-performing Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation.

Anti-social behavior?

Dare I ask what?


Last edited by MikeR on Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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frank
Little Wonder


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the US it came in second behind the latest Mission Impossible. I believe one third as many people saw it as the original version Fox had released years back.

While it is true the film had a target on its back since day one from the hardcore fans, There was recent stories of director Trank doing odd things on set like erecting a tent around himself.

It was just recently reported he almost came to blows with star Miles Teller who he fought to get casted. Plus he didn't get along with Kate Mara

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/fantastic-four-got-so-bad-miles-teller-and-josh-126670602777.html

it's a complex game of how much blame to assign to the different people involved.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/07/fantastic-four-josh-trank-tweet

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fantastic-four-blame-game-fox-814764

It is clear that regardless of whatever studio interference there was or Trank's potential or talent, at this point in his career he turned out to be the wrong choice for the film.

It should be noted there have been stories where sources had said Fox tried to keep a hands off approach to the film and not micro-manage. It was speculated that for this film it may have been a mistake since TRank did not know how to balance his vision for the franchise with the needs of the studio for the film to be accessible to as broad an audience as possible

It was well known that Fox made this reboot in order to retain the rights to the property
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MikeR
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we can expect a sequel, but with a different director?
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frank
Little Wonder


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 224
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one knows at this point

it's almost sad to the point of comical or the other way around
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cyberrich
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Midlands, U.K.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got quite excited when I saw this thread. A new film Question The first film wasn't awful, it just wasn't right. Would be great if it was done properly this time. Directed by someone who shared the vision of the 60's show, with a classy script and cast to match. As much as I'd love to see a great Avengers movie being made today, sadly I don't think it's possible to make such a charming piece of entertainment in these less than charming modern times. Rich.
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Darren
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a good review from the Forbes website.

Although there are a good few factors in the failure of the film but the lack of emotional investment is a good one. The reviewer is correct in that the film never switched up a gear. It's monotonous throughout. The finale is the same tempo and pace and energy as the opening scenes. There's no build up. The leads cold detachment just adds to it.

I've always seen the scale as a major issue. They tried expanding the TV, stretching it to fill a movie but they didn't compensate. They left us with a world that was impossible to care about. Virtually no one lives in Avengersland that we see, so why should we care about the devastation. It's like it's a world that's already died.
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rmartins
White Dwarf


Joined: 18 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw it when it came out.

Fortunately I remember almost nothing of it.
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mrspeel01
Nutshell


Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who is surprised that a preview-print or at least full deleted scenes still hasn't surfaced for the 1998 movie? In an age of "leaks" and "lost episode" recoveries ("Tunnel of fear") it seems that almost anything thought to be lost or obscure has a fairly good chance of turning up-especially on the internet!

It may well be a blessing for many, but I have always hoped that some fully completed scenes would emerge. Yes, there are the trailers which contain snippets of unused footage, plus filming of some unused scenes has appeared on you-tube. Such as sir August's rolls Royce with snow plough attached, but no fully completed scenes.

Is everything locked away in Warner Brothers vaults?! Surely not due to its value! Yes, yes copyright and all that. A few photos from deleted scenes have been available, such as in Dave Rogers making of the movie book but, again, not the actual deleted scenes. Even if there hasn't been shouts from the rooftops for anything I would have thought somebody somewhere has something...! Oh well, hopefully one day there will be a Director's cut.
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Avengerholic
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many years ago I remember seeing the scene where father is playing golf with Sir August and ends up falling over the edge of the course and down into a ravine.
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mrspeel01
Nutshell


Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, you've jogged my memory-I seem to remember that scene. There was a "making of" which showed part of the original first scene, whereby bad/clone Emma arrives at the phone box entrance to the prospero project, in the blue jag. There was also another "behind the scenes" shown on E! Entertainment (no i don't watch that channel regularly!) I believe this showed the Father/Golf scene too.

I have the movie script book that was released at the time, and it has many cut scenes. The original prospero opening really should have been kept, as it started the film with a bang (literally!). As the studio wanted more action, it was nonsensical to cut it. But then that is the story of the whole edit. There is also the, to my mind, essential scene when Steed first takes Emma to meet Mother. This has Mother showing scenes of bizarre weather conditions on a screen and thus setting-up the whole weather plot! Mrs Peel says "Time to get your woollens!" I could go on and on. These scenes were not lengthy but contained essential info. to make things coherent.

That's why i think the full cut would be a much better watch. And we could possibly get a really good fan-edit, like those for the Star wars films. Some of these are great. The film will still have all the same flaws but it would surely flow better, and at least make some sense! A film can live or die on the editing and this one is proof of that. Hope we get to see a better edit one day soon. 2018 is the film's 20th Anniversary Warner Brothers!!
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Avengerholic
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm right in saying that Jeremiah Chechik offered to do a directors cut not so very long ago for free, Warner were not in the least bit interested. It's very sad, I think it would fair so much better if seen in it's entirety. I don't believe an uncut version will ever come to light myself, I think that would have happened with the Blu Ray release if it was ever going too.
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mrspeel01
Nutshell


Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right-the director said in an interview that he did offer to edit it for free, as he wanted his original vision to see the light of day. So, If they wouldn't say yes to that it means they really aren't interested.

My hope is that at some point in the future when there is new management-and there always is new management in film companies-that there may come a point when someone new might be more willing to re-visit it. What may seem like a pointless idea today might seem like an OK idea tomorrow (and a way of making a bit of money on something gathering dust in the vault) such as a "special edition" for example. As I say it is just a hope but stranger things have happened, especally in the film industry...
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mousemeat
A Touch of Brimstone


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avengerholic wrote:
I think I'm right in saying that Jeremiah Chechik offered to do a directors cut not so very long ago for free, Warner were not in the least bit interested. It's very sad, I think it would fair so much better if seen in it's entirety. I don't believe an uncut version will ever come to light myself, I think that would have happened with the Blu Ray release if it was ever going too.


don't believe it will ever see the light of day....too bad..
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mrspeel01
Nutshell


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Lost" episodes of Doctor Who have found their way into the hands of private collectors. This is the case with many rare and thought to be lost films and TV episodes, including Tunnel of fear !. The collectors pride themselves on owning something exclusive. I suggested that someone somewhere must surely have something, such as a full deleted scene, from the preview/full print. Or even a full uncut print. wishful thinking? Yes of course. Maybe they will one day decide to share it. A release might not happen anytime soon. But i am not ready to say it will never be seen...
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frank
Little Wonder


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a first chance I had to reply about people's desire for a director's or "complete" cut

I just don't ever seeing it happen for one basic reason. it is not worth Warner bros' time to invest. Even if the director did it for free, the company would still have to invest money to produce and press copies of the film

The Avengers 97 movie was a critical and commercial flop. If it was one of those films that developed a following post theatrical release then WB probably would consider a director's cut. However it's not.

The best you can hope for is maybe a fan has deleted scenes and they are generous enough to post them on youtube

Personally I cannot see any missing scenes compensating for the fundamental problems I had with the film. Watching it again recently reminding what those problems are. I found it really akin to a big budget fan film with major stars. You had a film with a good budget and the starting materials for something good, but the wrong people were making it.

You can tell the director and the writer are fans of the tv show. Too much so. Too many scenes and moments that are overly referential and derivative of the series. A number of those moments like the homage to House That Jack Built didn't fit the narrative flow or felt forced.

The show was usually good at incorporating speculative and science fiction elements in a way where the viewer could suspend disbelief fairly easily. I found the film failed in that area big time. The cloning aspect felt clumsy and awkward. There was not much point to it. Like they couldn't come up with any better reason to involve Mrs Peel other than NOT making it an origin story
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mrspeel01
Nutshell


Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the majority of your points. I too stated that a full uncut print would still not solve the flaws in the film-of which there are far too many!

Although the film has not achieved true " so bad it's good " cult status it has garnered for itself a bit of a reputation, which could actually be used in its favour if WB put their mind to it. The movie does tend to top lists (online, magazines etc) for worst film remake of a TV series, which could be a starting point...

I remember a somewhat similar situation with the film "Heaven's Gate", which was also a massive flop on release. All the stories of how it was butchered and of being the biggest money-loser ever etc etc. A restored version did see the light of day eventually due to immense curiosity. Admittedly the Avengers movie has not even come close to gaining the same level of reputation/curiosity that film had, nor some others with similar histories. But a tag-line that hints/plays on "is it that bad?" without actually saying it, could drum up interest. I had NO interest in seeing Heaven's gate or a film such as "Plan 9 from outer space", but was caught up in the curiosity about them due to their "infamous" status. Magazine articles and a little (cheap) publicity on WB's part playing on the same type of thing may whet the appetite for "the OTHER Avengers film nobody wants to see!"

I am probably clutching at straws and a big part of me does think it IS a lost cause to hope for a special edition blu-ray/DVD. But knowing the film industry and of how it manages to get people interested in so much s***, I can't completely write-off such a possibility. I did actually work for WB UK in the '80s (NOT in any creative capacity but in the office) and got to know the sales/Marketing team and of how they worked. I got tons of free promo stuff (how i miss it) and saw preview prints of many movies before they went to the British Board of film classification. I learnt a lot about how the UK censors think, and of how they differed from the US. No surprise-UK more anti-violence, the US more anti-sex. A generalisation but more or less true.

Anyway back to the point! It does, of course, depend on WB being interested and they really haven't been for so long now. What could change their mind in the future is unknown. I'm not a person for gloating but I would love to be able to one day say "Told you so..."! hee hee!
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