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Home video releases: Versions of episodes
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

angel wrote:
Is there any British version of the The Avengers on DVD with English subtitles ?


Only color Emma Peel episodes from Kult TV/Contender.
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The blurays have English Hard of Hearing subtitles.

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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just realized that the print of episode "The Thirteenth Hole" on French DVD set (2015) is not identical to British DVD (Optimum)!!! Shocked

So, there are already at least five different versions of this episode on video. Shocked

1. Old french version.
1. Old german version.
3. USA version.
4. British version from Optimum.
5. French version from DVD set, released in 2015.

French version by DVD set (2015) differs from Optimum by two points:

1. While some scenes in Optimum print have "increased screen resolution", French have original or the most original resolution in whole.

Let's take a look at three prints:

USA print



French print from DVD set (2015)



Optimum (heavily cropped) (this shot is identical to the German DVD edition 2017 too, which in turn has two differences from Optimum in other episodes). Wink




2. Optimum and German print from DVD set (2017) have following:
After the scene when Emma takes a coin from a Steed's hat and asks him: "And what's so important about three o'clock this afternoon anyway?" come the next scene: on the golf course Adams, in the presence of Jackson, has his hands against each other, and reaches for the bag with golf clubs.
Duration of footage: 2 seconds.



American and French print was as following: after the scene when Steed lying on the couch puts on his hat, is the footage "on the golf course Adams, in the presence of Jackson, looks at his watch and then puts a golf club on his shoulder".
Duration of footage: 2 seconds.



In turn, while American print has cuts, mentioned French print includes same footages as Optimum exclude the one.

Yes, "The Thirteenth Hole" is the only Avengers episode which has so many different prints only on video!
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the above, it is interesting that two new DVD sets of b/w Emma Peel episodes I have checked, not one is completely identical to Optimum. Smile


German DVD (2017) has two differences:

1. Episode "Man-Eater of Surrey Green".

Used the original music fragment in the scene, when Lennox comes out from behind the trees on the way to the truck and watches the unloading of bags of fertilizer. Optimum have other music in this scene (before it was noticed by Denis Chauvet and posted on site Le Monde des Avengers).

2. The names of the screenwriter and director in the opening titles of the episode "Too Many Christmas Trees" are correct, unlike Optimum.


French DVD (2017) has three differences:

1. Screen resolution of all episodes is correct, unlike Optimum.

2. Episode "The Thirteenth Hole": slightly different version (see post above).

3. The names of the screenwriter and director in the opening titles of the episode "Too Many Christmas Trees" are correct, unlike Optimum.


In coming month, I hope, I will study the new Australian DVD set (b/w Emma Peel episodes) and we will see if it contains the prints of episodes completely identical to one of the new DVD sets that I have, or there are some differences too.
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denis
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

denis rigg wrote:
Yes, "The Thirteenth Hole" is the only Avengers episode which has so many different prints only on video!

In its first French edtion on DVD, this episode has seven cuts !
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

denis wrote:
denis rigg wrote:
Yes, "The Thirteenth Hole" is the only Avengers episode which has so many different prints only on video!

In its first French edtion on DVD, this episode has seven cuts !


Many thanks, Denis. I took it into account. Wink
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supplement to my post in this thread, dated Dec 17, 2018 (supplement is below after the highlighted quote)...


denis rigg wrote:
I compared of prints DVD Optimum, French DVD-kiosk, A&E and Russian from TV for the episode Return of the Cybernauts.

Surprise, I discovered that on the British DVD Optimum there are two cuts.

The first cut was mentioned many years ago in various forums, blogs, etc, that is following .: in the British DVD edition by Optimum are cut out some seconds (three and a half seconds) of the beginning of the footage (this footage starts on 07:44, time by DVD Optimum), where the camera smoothly moves along the building, from where Dr. Neville comes out.
Footage starts from this frame:




Old French DVD edition presents other print:
This footage is cut a little less and begins with screen lightening (I'm sure this print is presented on some other European video editions too).




The American video editions, all or some Blu Rays editions, and the episode version shown on Russian television presents the full footage of this scene.





Now, we go to Second cut!!! Wink Footage starts on 26:03, time by DVD Optimum.

In the British DVD edition by Optimum are cut out one and a half second of a footage, where Paul brings the bottle to the glass on the table.

British DVD edition by Optimum starts footage immediately from this frame:




Other video editions (perhaps all those that were released before Optimum's edition) contain a full footage, starts from lightening of the screen with this frame:



As a result, if you want to have a full episode Return of the Cybernauts in your collection, then look for American prints Wink , because, alas, currently I can only confirm that exactly these prints are complete.


...I compared of prints French DVD (2015) and USA Blu Ray for the episode Return of the Cybernauts.

While USA Blu Ray is identical to Optimum, French DVD (2015) contains only the second cut (read the highlighted quote above). Wink
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on points the above, and others things here (below), it is interesting that French DVD (2015) and USA Blu Ray are not identical to Optimum in general. Smile


French DVD (2015) has two differences:

1. While DVD from Optimum contains music cue for intro "The Avengers in Color" in episode "The Winged Avenger", French DVD (2015) not contains.

2. While DVD from Optimum contains two cuts in episode "Return of the Cybernauts", French DVD have only one.


USA Blu Ray has one difference:

While DVD from Optimum contains music cue for intro "The Avengers in Color" in all color episodes, USA Blu Ray not contains.
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verdict for Australian DVD set of b/w Emma Peel episodes (Madman, 2016):

Episode prints in this DVD set are completely identical to Optimum (including the same StudioCanal intro before the episode). Smile

Yes, of all the DVD sets I tested on moment, this one is the first one that copies Optimum.
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I compared of prints DVD Optimum, A&E and Russian from TV for the episode Dead Man's Treasure.

All three prints are different!!! Let's go to the details. Wink

1. DVD Optimum, and most other new editions like Blu Rays and new DVDs (personally, I checked American Blu Ray and new French DVD), has one cut in one footage, unlike prints of A&E and Russian TV.

DVD Optimum. Footage with Emma in thinking behind the sofa ends on frame when she looks straight ahead:



Full footage ends when Emma behind the sofa looks to the right.




2. DVD Optimum and most other new editions presents two full footages that are cut on A&E and Russian TV print.

First footage.

This full footage ends when Carl puts a hotdog in his mouth.



A&E print: this footage ends when Carl brings a hot dog to his mouth.



Russian TV print: this footage ends when Carl just going to eat it (and following footage have a little cut in the beginning).




Second footage.

This full footage ends when Carl and Alex in the car leave the farm at Ridge and disappear from view of the camera.



A&E print: this footage ends when Carl and Alex in the car leave the farm at Ridge and their car is only half out of sight of the camera.



Russian TV print: this footage ends when Carl and Alex in the car leave the farm at Ridge, but their car is completely in sight of the camera (and following footage have a little cut in the beginning).


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dissolute
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hotdog? That's Sixties London, and it's clearly a sandwich. Alex is shown holding two sandwiches wrapped in plastic and two small cartons, presumably of milk.

Interestingly, your time codes are completely different from mine, I'm looking at the UK bluray here:

1. Emma at fireplace 13:40/51:44 - she looks to the right and then gazes forward again, is that what you meant?
2. sandwich: 8:15/51:44 - in mouth
2. car 34:34/51:44 - car completely gone

The UK DVDs match your timecodes, so I assume this is because the blurays have a corrected 24fps frame rate to match the original film rather than the 25fps rate of PAL DVD.

Indeed if I compare the lengths, the bluray has 74496 frames @ 24fps and the DVD has 74500 frames @ 25fps, the missing 4 frames due to my rounding to the nearest second.

Hurray for native 24fps and soft telecine!
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, is this a sandwich? I will correct. Smile Thanks for this information, Piers.

Yes, all the timecodes of the episodes I use from DVD PAL, since my first Avengers Blu Ray appeared quite recently. Wink Certainly, I will use this practice further in order not to confuse people who are already used to the timecoding that I used from start.

Quote:
Emma at fireplace 13:40/51:44 - she looks to the right and then gazes forward again, is that what you meant?


No! I meant she looks to the right, then gazes forward, and looks to the right again (final frames of this footage). Thus, it is cut on new remastered prints (including all Blu Rays). Sad
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume the shots that open with the screen "brightening up" are from fades to black used for advertising (commercial) breaks. Some of the master-editors for DVD releases or broadcasts would have no use for such fade-ins as they would no longer need commercial breaks in the same places (or at all).
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting that there are some many different versions of the 13th hole..in terms of scenes, etc....any idea why ? and what version comes off the best ?
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

denis rigg wrote:
So, is this a sandwich? I will correct. Smile Thanks for this information, Piers.

Yes, all the timecodes of the episodes I use from DVD PAL, since my first Avengers Blu Ray appeared quite recently. Wink Certainly, I will use this practice further in order not to confuse people who are already used to the timecoding that I used from start.

Quote:
Emma at fireplace 13:40/51:44 - she looks to the right and then gazes forward again, is that what you meant?


No! I meant she looks to the right, then gazes forward, and looks to the right again (final frames of this footage). Thus, it is cut on new remastered prints (including all Blu Rays). Sad


I'm not sure what you mean by "right", I assume you mean our right - i.e. stage left.
In my blurays she looks forward/semi-right (HER right - stage right, so OUR left), then stage left, then forward/semi-right, then stage left, then forward/semi-right again. Then the scene ends.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

been eye ballin the images...and it sorta ' looks ' like a hot dog...but probably is not...a sandwich......anyhow, the thought of hot dog being wolfed down...reminds me of this ditty...(in 'e' )

you ate a hot dog, it tasted good...you ate a hot dog, I knew you would..'

hot dogs, a tasty treat, hot dogs, they can't be beat, eat one, and you'll see, hot dogs, a meaty dream '....


soft cymbal crash....
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denis rigg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
I assume the shots that open with the screen "brightening up" are from fades to black used for advertising (commercial) breaks. Some of the master-editors for DVD releases or broadcasts would have no use for such fade-ins as they would no longer need commercial breaks in the same places (or at all).


That's right, Franky, these black screen inserts were made for the ad inserts. Wink
I agree that some of the master-editors for DVD releases or broadcasts would have no use for such fade-ins as they would no longer need commercial breaks in the same places, therefore, we may be surprised to find some fading and lightening in recent releases that were not present in previous releases. Curious? Wink

B/w Emma Peel episodes:

Dial a Deadly Number
The new editions, starting with British DVD Box (2010), have a fade and lightening of the screen between the footages "Steed having a drink in Uill's office" and "Steed is going down the pub stairs", while in the early editions the frame simply changed.

The Cybernauts
The new editions, starting with British DVD Box (2010), have a fade and lightening of the screen between the footages "Emma looks at the card" and "Steed at United Automation", while in the early editions the frame simply changed.

I wonder where did they get these prints for new releases if the old ones are different (for these and other moments)? Rolling Eyes


mousemeat wrote:
interesting that there are some many different versions of the 13th hole..in terms of scenes, etc....any idea why ? and what version comes off the best ?


This only demonstrates that there are several sources with different Avengers prints and for some unknown reason it is the 13th Hole most problematic from b/w Emma Peel episodes. We still don't have an uncut version of 13th Hole on the home release. I wonder if an uncut version of this episode was ever transmitted? Rolling Eyes
I find that although the latest releases contain the most complete version of the episode, I like the one footage from the all or some early editions better.

I.e:
American and French old print was as following: after the scene when Steed lying on the couch puts on his hat, is the footage "on the golf course Adams, in the presence of Jackson, looks at his watch and then puts a golf club on his shoulder".
Duration of footage: 2 seconds.




dissolute wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "right", I assume you mean our right - i.e. stage left.
In my blurays she looks forward/semi-right (HER right - stage right, so OUR left), then stage left, then forward/semi-right, then stage left, then forward/semi-right again. Then the scene ends.


I agree that the definition "stage left" is the best here, so that it is more clear to the majority.


mousemeat wrote:
been eye ballin the images...and it sorta ' looks ' like a hot dog...but probably is not...a sandwich......anyhow, the thought of hot dog being wolfed down...reminds me of this ditty...(in 'e' )

you ate a hot dog, it tasted good...you ate a hot dog, I knew you would..'

hot dogs, a tasty treat, hot dogs, they can't be beat, eat one, and you'll see, hot dogs, a meaty dream '....


soft cymbal crash....



Thanks, mousemeat. Wink
First thing I thought exactly about "hot dog" in the episode Dead Man's Treasure is that the color Avengers episodes were Americanized on several points and it seemed to me that Karl would rather eat hot dogs to please the American viewers, considering that what he eats is really more like to. Wink

Second thing: When did hot dogs come to UK?
1939
Even though they are are quite cheap to produce, hot dogs are not just appreciated by average people. In 1939, at a picnic in Hyde Park, first lady Eleanor Roosevelt offered her husband's guests, King George VI of England and his queen, hot dogs as part of the menu.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting info about the ad inserts for different areas-or-markets...

is there a untouched version of the 13th hole in the archives /

IN regards to the hot dog affair...circa 1939..Yeah, pretty much true..FDR and his wife had an informal state picnic at FDR's estate in hyde park...

there's a interesting film with that 'event' Hyde Park on the hudson....I believe it was released by Focus Features..or Universal......and featured Bill Murray as FDR...and covers the first meetings and picnic with FDR and the Royals...as they were over here to drum up support for supplies, and America's entry into WW2..
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FFS, they are definitely sandwiches. You can see the square crusts in the packets.

https://imgur.com/a/M3aHGGE
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a taco in that last pic Wink
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