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Six or Seven seasons?
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Six or seven seasons of the Avengers?
Six, there is only one Emma Peel colour season.
76%
 76%  [ 38 ]
Seven, there are two seasons of Emma Peel colour episodes.
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
I have another or no opinion on this matter.
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 50

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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mousemeat wrote:

good points...more or less...but you're basically telling me that British production companies, basically cannot support productions of many series..after ' x ' number of episodes, with out American or any other foreign investment..this is not a problem with U.S. companies
Look at it another way - American companies couldn't/can't make these shows. That's why they have to co-produce and give the jobs to the British Smile

If American companies could make the shows alone - they would. But they can't, so they don't.

Do you think WGBH Boston could've made Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes? Dream on. There's no way an American company could have made anything like that on its own.
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cost of producing the show on colour film was the really prohibitive cost. Massively more expensive and with the turmoil within ITV companies it wasn't something that they could do without a cash injection.
The US has a huge bankroll and the networks could produce hundred of episodes.
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dissolute wrote:

The US has a huge bankroll and the networks could produce hundred of episodes.
Of what? The Man From UNCLE? There's expertise to pay for too - good writers, inventive ideas, good actors with chemistry. Not something you can churn out of a film laboratory.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
mousemeat wrote:

good points...more or less...but you're basically telling me that British production companies, basically cannot support productions of many series..after ' x ' number of episodes, with out American or any other foreign investment..this is not a problem with U.S. companies
Look at it another way - American companies couldn't/can't make these shows. That's why they have to co-produce and give the jobs to the British Smile

If American companies could make the shows alone - they would. But they can't, so they don't.

Do you think WGBH Boston could've made Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes? Dream on. There's no way an American company could have made anything like that on its own.



you're missing the point...it's not about how deep the pockets of the American media, are..the thread was about why the series ended in 1969, more or less because ABC-U.S. , CANCELLED the series , and without funding the end of the TARA era happened in May of 1969; the on going question is why, the series couldn't stand on it's own two feet budget wise in the UK, thus needing american funding...and keep in mind, the series was exported in many other countries besides the U.S. and should have been drawing some sort of licensing fees..hence, the need for U.S. funding should have not be so vital..

instead, we get a side trip how WGBH in Boston, couldn't have made Sherlock Holmes.....on wait, we AMERICANS can fund it..well La de dah dah....


typical british denial....
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already explained why, so did Piers. You asked about funding and we told you. Only co-production can afford to make these series. America didn't even try to make it solo, they didn't have the talent available so they invested in the UK - as they did in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and still do.

The discussion had already moved beyond 1969, we're not interested in rehashing the same old posts over and over again.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
I already explained why, so did Piers. You asked about funding and we told you. Only co-production can afford to make these series. America didn't even try to make it solo, they didn't have the talent available so they invested in the UK - as they did in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and still do.

The discussion had already moved beyond 1969, we're not interested in rehashing the same old posts over and over again.


oh really, well thanks for bringing this to my attention, lord, I'm sooo lucky to have you point me in that direction...and one final note, if we're or better yet, Y-O-U- are not interested in re hashing, let alone ANSWERING..then why even bother to answer ? ..btw, America even back in the time frame of the series, and earlier, had both the talent, the means, and budget to do what the Brits can't seem to do...properly fund a series that was enjoyed now only in the UK, but in some cases, the United States as well....bottom line, the avengers ended in 1969, because ABC, etc didn't properly fund the series, this having to rely on American funding....and yeah, the series would have eventually ended, say in 1971, 72, etc....but it didn't...myself, would have loved to have seen the TARA era go another season....instead of ending with BIZZARE.
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blimey, let's keep it civil, shall we!

The series ended because the cost of producing it on colour film was too high for ABC/Iris to do without getting money from overseas networks. Britain is a much smaller market than the USA and advertising revenue was much lower in the UK - largely due to them being limited at the time to 4'35" of advertising per hour. The ITV network stations, when they bought the shows for broadcast, couldn't and wouldn't pay Iris enough to cover the cost of the production. There just wasn't enough revenue to cover the production cost, so shows like this were running at a loss unless they had overseas sales.

In contrast, the US networks and the Hollywood machine are loaded with money raised from advertising and network sales and can produce a ton of shows - and they do!

I don't agree with Franky about the lack of talent in the US, but I think he's getting at the difference in style with the American shows. I think he's saying the US didn't have the local talent that could produce these British-style shows, although they could produce their own local shows brilliantly. I love "Get Smart" and "M.A.S.H.", for instance, but they are very different to UK shows. "M.A.S.H." initially flopped in the UK and Australia because local audiences hated the laughter track, it was unnatural to us as we didn't have that in our own shows.

Of course, a lot of British actors and directors did move out to LA to continue working there, as the UK industry is much more limited in size. Ray Austin & Patrick Macnee among them!
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dissolute wrote:
Blimey, let's keep it civil, shall we!

The series ended because the cost of producing it on colour film was too high for ABC/Iris to do without getting money from overseas networks. Britain is a much smaller market than the USA and advertising revenue was much lower in the UK - largely due to them being limited at the time to 4'35" of advertising per hour. The ITV network stations, when they bought the shows for broadcast, couldn't and wouldn't pay Iris enough to cover the cost of the production. There just wasn't enough revenue to cover the production cost, so shows like this were running at a loss unless they had overseas sales.

In contrast, the US networks and the Hollywood machine are loaded with money raised from advertising and network sales and can produce a ton of shows - and they do!

I don't agree with Franky about the lack of talent in the US, but I think he's


getting at the difference in style with the American shows. I think he's saying the US didn't have the local talent that could produce these British-style shows, although they could produce their own local shows brilliantly. I love "Get Smart" and "M.A.S.H
.", for instance, but they are very different to UK shows. "M.A.S.H." initially flopped in the UK and Australia because local audiences hated the laughter track, it was unnatural to us as we didn't have that in our own shows.

Of course, a lot of British actors and directors did move out to LA to continue working there, as the UK industry is much more limited in size. Ray Austin & Patrick Macnee among them!




good points...still, the series was exported to other Euro markets..which They got monies for licensing ...How many markets was the show seen / sold at it's peak with Tara ? those number alone, should have at least allow a 8th season..before American money added to the budget...but really it's moot point now...as what happened happened..and ended in 1969..

and yeah, there's some decent even classy american programming being done, thru both the commercial networks (ABC/CBS'NBC) plus HBO, PBS, Cinemax, etc....stuff like playhouse 90, etc....as well as the usual trashy programming as well........and not only did Macnee moved to the states, to live and get acting work, he become a U.S. Citizen as well....
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have since found a listing that has "Split!" broadcast in the USA on 10 April 1968.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mousemeat wrote:
Frankymole wrote:
mousemeat wrote:

good points...more or less...but you're basically telling me that British production companies, basically cannot support productions of many series..after ' x ' number of episodes, with out American or any other foreign investment..this is not a problem with U.S. companies
Look at it another way - American companies couldn't/can't make these shows. That's why they have to co-produce and give the jobs to the British Smile

If American companies could make the shows alone - they would. But they can't, so they don't.

Do you think WGBH Boston could've made Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes? Dream on. There's no way an American company could have made anything like that on its own.



you're missing the point...it's not about how deep the pockets of the American media, are..the thread was about why the series ended in 1969, more or less because ABC-U.S. , CANCELLED the series , and without funding the end of the TARA era happened in May of 1969; the on going question is why, the series couldn't stand on it's own two feet budget wise in the UK, thus needing american funding...and keep in mind, the series was exported in many other countries besides the U.S. and should have been drawing some sort of licensing fees..hence, the need for U.S. funding should have not be so vital..


instead, we get a side trip how WGBH in Boston, couldn't have made Sherlock Holmes.....on wait, we AMERICANS can fund it..well La de dah dah....


typical british denial....



WGBH couldn't produced any thing of merit (i.e. sherlock holmes, etc) is utter rubbish. I'm laughing at just how absurd that comment was....and WGBH, or any other PBS or NPR station in the U.S. is perfectly capable of producing such quality programming....as the same goes for the networks, HBO, etc...they like their UK counterparts, are also guilty of producing some low brow programs as well...
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Allard
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought that the notion the Avengers couldn't be paid for any more an odd idea, since the UK went on produce television content.

Maybe the show had run its course in creativity, but there is no rule set in stone that you couldn't make the show on what was available for other contemporary series. It's just the taste of viewers that would make a reduced budget show commercially unviable.

I wonder how many shows nowadays would have the plug pulled without US sales, Midsomer Murders?



By the way on the six or seven series: I acknowledge the late Peels early Tara's are an own block as how the were ordered from America.

Whatever is correct, a season per Steed's Partner is still the most practical to talk about the Avengers.
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allard wrote:
I always thought that the notion the Avengers couldn't be paid for any more an odd idea, since the UK went on produce television content.

Maybe the show had run its course in creativity, but there is no rule set in stone that you couldn't make the show on what was available for other contemporary series. It's just the taste of viewers that would make a reduced budget show commercially unviable.

I wonder how many shows nowadays would have the plug pulled without US sales, Midsomer Murders?



By the way on the six or seven series: I acknowledge the late Peels early Tara's are an own block as how the were ordered from America.


Whatever is correct, a season per Steed's Partner is still the most practical to talk about the Avengers.





I would concur..100 %
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mousemeat wrote:

and yeah, there's some decent even classy american programming being done, thru both the commercial networks (ABC/CBS'NBC) plus HBO, PBS, Cinemax, etc....stuff like playhouse 90, etc....as well as the usual trashy programming as well........and not only did Macnee moved to the states, to live and get acting work, he become a U.S. Citizen as well....
Patrick was doing the triangular circuit of the USA, Canada and UK for TV plays etc long before The Avengers. Which goes to show that Ian Hendry doing the same would not have been far-fetched at all. But he wasn't interested in staying in TV, he wanted to do movies.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankymole wrote:
mousemeat wrote:

and yeah, there's some decent even classy american programming being done, thru both the commercial networks (ABC/CBS'NBC) plus HBO, PBS, Cinemax, etc....stuff like playhouse 90, etc....as well as the usual trashy programming as well........and not only did Macnee moved to the states, to live and get acting work, he become a U.S. Citizen as well....
Patrick was doing the triangular circuit of the USA, Canada and UK for TV plays etc long before The Avengers. Which goes to show that Ian Hendry doing the same would not have been far-fetched at all. But he wasn't interested in staying in TV, he wanted to do movies.


exactly...My first knowledge of Patrick came from a broadway cast LP on RCA -Victor. mid to late 1950's...and of course, he went on to many other projects..as he was building a resume of sorts..Hendry, ever as good as Patrick was..in regards to his acting chops, didn't feather his acting nest...as much..of course, his on going problems with alcohol , might have been a factor..but who's to say ?
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Ian Wegg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for the third option "I have another or no opinion on this matter."

My other opinion is this: British television never has seasons. They are series, however you count them.
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Frankymole
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the only way I saw "season" used on UK television in the 20th century was to describe the quarter of the year when all the new programmes were coming, usually Autumn (not "Fall"!) so it was "the Autumn season on BBC kicks off with..." and then lists of programmes (or new series!)...

Or "Season's Greetings!" at Christmas, of course!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian Wegg wrote:
I voted for the third option "I have another or no opinion on this matter."

My other opinion is this: British television never has seasons. They are series, however you count them.


may be correct..but in reality, it's moot point. seasons / series, it's still all the same.
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