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'62-64 seasons

 
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ikbtops
Little Wonder


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: '62-64 seasons Reply with quote

I had a couple of questions about these seasons. Is it just me or is Steeds character a little more sketchy in terms of reliability and recklessness than the later seasons? Is it just because he's written as a younger more dangerous character? Also, were these video taped episodes live?
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darren
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steed's character has rougher edges in the videotape episodes. They didn't entirely disappear in the film series but he was a more refined version. Videotape Steed could be shady, unreliable and not very trustworthy, he could be quite ruthless at times. I love all versions of Steed and Macnee was always excellent at whichever version.

Although they weren't broadcast live, they were recorded "as live". They had a certain window of time to record the episode in, they would record act 1 all in one go and if something went majorly wrong that would go back to the beginning and start again. Most of the fluffs that stayed in weren't considered important enough to start all over again. Some things were pre-recorded the day before to be played into the recording, by season 3, the fights were done the day before.
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ikbtops
Little Wonder


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! Very good information!
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dissolute
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
Steed's character has rougher edges in the videotape episodes. They didn't entirely disappear in the film series but he was a more refined version. Videotape Steed could be shady, unreliable and not very trustworthy, he could be quite ruthless at times. I love all versions of Steed and Macnee was always excellent at whichever version.

Although they weren't broadcast live, they were recorded "as live". They had a certain window of time to record the episode in, they would record act 1 all in one go and if something went majorly wrong that would go back to the beginning and start again. Most of the fluffs that stayed in weren't considered important enough to start all over again. Some things were pre-recorded the day before to be played into the recording, by season 3, the fights were done the day before.


Indeed, if you read the original paperwork you see they had an hour to record a 52' programme (it's generally referred to in "The Avengers" shotting scripts as "VTR"):

(e.g. - Mr Teddy Bear)

Episode 33
Production Number : 3506
VTR/ABC/1907 & 1907A
Teddington Studio 2 & 3

Friday 3rd August 1962

Camera rehearsal 10.00-12.30
Lunch break 12.30-13.30
Camera rehearsal 13.30-18.30
Turn Round 18.30-18.45
Supper break 18.45-19.45
Camera rehearsal 19.45-20.15
Line-Up 20.15-20.45
VTR Insert 1907A in Studio 3* 20.45-21.00


* 1907A is the scene where Wayne-Gilley is assassinated while being interviewed, expected duration was 1'30".

Two telecine inserts:
12:40-13:00 Cathy drives through the night, followed by Henry
14:46-14:48 Having stranded Henry, Cathy drives to the house


Saturday 4th August 1962

Camera rehearsal 10.00-12.30
Lunch break 12.30-13.30
Camera rehearsal 13.30-15.30
Tea break, Line-up,
Normal scan, Make-up 15.30-16.15
Dress rehearsal 16.15-17.30
Notes 17.30-18.00
Line-up 18.00-18.30
VTR 18.30-19.30
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Allard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the first three seasons, it was much more crime fighting then spying. I think this for a major part explains why Steed had a different character then when he became the British spy in the later series. No longer a player in the underworld but now a dabbler in the international milieu of intrigue.
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Mona
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
Steed's character has rougher edges in the videotape episodes. They didn't entirely disappear in the film series but he was a more refined version. Videotape Steed could be shady, unreliable and not very trustworthy, he could be quite ruthless at times. I love all versions of Steed and Macnee was always excellent at whichever version.



He could be unreliable and untrustworthy to his partners, yes, but not in terms of the case at hand, which he was always diligently attentive to solve.

The evolution of Steed is a masterpiece of Macnee's acting. Think of other TV characters in long-lived shows, and they were the exact same person, generally, they were on the first episode as they were on the final show. Marshall Matt Dillon, for example, on TV for 20 years didn't change or grow at all as a character. But, Macnee really had Steed grow and evolve as Steed, being more refined the more time he spent in Britain (vs. from what we understand his previous life as being overseas a lot), and of course, in relationship to his partners. In TNA, his having aged and lived through a lot and seen so many other agents/friends die young clearly comes through in his character (although physically he aged Very Well!). All the "different" Steed are believable, make sense, and I think enhance the character and the show.

Mona
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mousemeat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allard wrote:
In the first three seasons, it was much more crime fighting then spying. I think this for a major part explains why Steed had a different character then when he became the British spy in the later series. No longer a player in the underworld but now a dabbler in the international milieu of intrigue.


good points...and a side of Steed..I also loved...
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jamieavenger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Steed in this era - edgier and more ruthless. A good contrast to Mrs Gale.

Same can't be said for the Venus Smith character - I do wonder what the point of her was. Were the producers more interested in showcasing Julie Steven's singing ability than developing an interesting character?
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MRotten
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamieavenger wrote:
I love Steed in this era - edgier and more ruthless. A good contrast to Mrs Gale.

Same can't be said for the Venus Smith character - I do wonder what the point of her was. Were the producers more interested in showcasing Julie Steven's singing ability than developing an interesting character?


The trouble was, for the first two episodes, Venus was a rather fussy nightclub torch singer with a fluffy hairdo. Then a change in the show's producer resulted in the character changing into the short-haired perky young girl singer for the remaining 4 episodes. The singing bits don't do anything to move the plot along, so are pretty much unnecessary. That's when the fast forward button comes in handy.
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Dandy Forsdyke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Ian Hendry left the show they went through a period of quiet experimentation. They had Steed solo, Steed with Venus, Steed with Mrs Gale and Steed with an ersatz Dr Keel. Once they had made a decision who was the better partner for Steed they stayed with that.

Venus, between concept and performance, changed because pop music was changing and they wanted her to at least look current. I think her music style stayed pretty much the same.

I think that there is a lot of charm in those early episodes, but I can understand people more used to Emma and Tara's later adventures that Venus Smith would not being to their taste.
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamieavenger wrote:
I love Steed in this era - edgier and more ruthless. A good contrast to Mrs Gale.

Same can't be said for the Venus Smith character - I do wonder what the point of her was. Were the producers more interested in showcasing Julie Steven's singing ability than developing an interesting character?


Venus was actually created to be part of the Keel era in season one. The idea was that Steed and Keel would hang about in seedy nightclubs, and Venus would act as their contact in the nightclub, gathering intel on the unsavoury clientele and passing it on to them. Had season one lasted the full 33 episodes as planned, she would have been introduced, but then there was the strike, and Ian Hendry took work on in the interim, and suddenly found himself over-committed when the series came back. Since they needed someone to fill the gap, they used a character they already had plotted out. Like Dr. King, she bought them some time while they worked out what the new direction for the show would be.
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VA_Avenger
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A five minute song is five minutes of dialog that doesn't need to be written. Wink
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JohnSteedFr
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
jamieavenger wrote:
I love Steed in this era - edgier and more ruthless. A good contrast to Mrs Gale.

Same can't be said for the Venus Smith character - I do wonder what the point of her was. Were the producers more interested in showcasing Julie Steven's singing ability than developing an interesting character?


Venus was actually created to be part of the Keel era in season one. The idea was that Steed and Keel would hang about in seedy nightclubs, and Venus would act as their contact in the nightclub, gathering intel on the unsavoury clientele and passing it on to them. Had season one lasted the full 33 episodes as planned, she would have been introduced, but then there was the strike, and Ian Hendry took work on in the interim, and suddenly found himself over-committed when the series came back. Since they needed someone to fill the gap, they used a character they already had plotted out. Like Dr. King, she bought them some time while they worked out what the new direction for the show would be.


Surprised

Where did you read that ? Thanks so much Timeless for posting this !
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Timeless A-Peel
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnSteedFr wrote:
Timeless A-Peel wrote:
jamieavenger wrote:
I love Steed in this era - edgier and more ruthless. A good contrast to Mrs Gale.

Same can't be said for the Venus Smith character - I do wonder what the point of her was. Were the producers more interested in showcasing Julie Steven's singing ability than developing an interesting character?


Venus was actually created to be part of the Keel era in season one. The idea was that Steed and Keel would hang about in seedy nightclubs, and Venus would act as their contact in the nightclub, gathering intel on the unsavoury clientele and passing it on to them. Had season one lasted the full 33 episodes as planned, she would have been introduced, but then there was the strike, and Ian Hendry took work on in the interim, and suddenly found himself over-committed when the series came back. Since they needed someone to fill the gap, they used a character they already had plotted out. Like Dr. King, she bought them some time while they worked out what the new direction for the show would be.


Surprised

Where did you read that ? Thanks so much Timeless for posting this !


Oh, ages ago in one of the Dave Rogers books, I believe. Her background was sketched out in a fair bit of detail for an Avengers character. She was definitely meant to be a Keel-era character, which accounts for her imperfect fit in season 2--the series had already evolved beyond the sort of storyline she was meant to fit. If they hadn't been in a bit of a tight spot after Ian left, they probably wouldn't have used her at all. So she was handy stop-gap. They had no idea where Cathy Gale would go, after all. I've posted about it before, but I'm glad it's new to you. Very Happy
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